Paging matt_mcl, paging matt_mcl… allez-vous ici! 
This is a very interesting thread.
I grew up in a family that had been NDP (and before then, prairie-populist CCF) for generations. When I went to university, I broke away from that and went small-g green.
I may reconsider that; if the Martin Liberals look like they’re going to abandon their promised renewal (as I fear the Ontario Liberals are just starting to do), I may end up voting fluorescent orange instead of Green…
MAR-tin, MAR-tin, thanks! Even Bush should be able to pronounce that. It’s the kind of name a leader would have in a movie.
Wow, how do y’all keep track of all these parties? I guess it’s easier if you’re born to it. But we have two big squishy parties that pander to everybody they can and change course like slalom skiers every few years. Also a few extra we keep around to drain off the People Who Feel Very Strongly About ______.
I’ll have to check in with my Canadian relatives to see how they feel. They’re all up in Nova Scotia and seem to have many of the same ideas about those idiots in Ottawa that people in the far West do, although it’s not about guns, but about how to help NS, which has apparently been in dire straits since my grandmother emigrated–in 1935.
Hmmm…smilies don’t seem to work in Opera. Dang.
Hamish: I am inspired by your faith in the NDP. The reason I think they can’t win is because nearly every time I watch a debate the NDP candidate (Rae vs Harris and McLeod, Hampton vs McGuinty and Eves, to name two that spring to mind) the NDP candidate is, to my eyes is the clear, obvious winner. Both of these men were immeasurably smarter than their opponents, said more intelligent things, answered questions instead of evading them, etc.
The people who agree with me are the people who have not yet absorbed the “The NDP Can’t Win” dogma. For example, an immigrant woman I worked with was terrified that Hampton’s showing in the debate would mean he would split the “left” vote and allow Eves to beat McGuinty. I told her no, it doesn’t matter how smart or capable the NDP leader is, they still won’t win. So it feeds on itself a bit.
I myself love the NDP except I wish they would switch allegiances from labour to environment. Witness the CAW support of the Island Airport, which would have been an environmental travesty. That’s why I, the biggest ‘lefty’ around, am reluctant to vote for them.
In other news, Sheila Copps may cross the floor ! She rocks ! This would be fantastic ! First Broadbent, now Copps ! Go NDP !!
I would have thought having Sheila Copps run would be a scary thing to the NDP. That shrew has given me the creeps since day one.
I have been a centre-rightist most of my life, and yet I can’t feel anything but disgust over the CRAP merger and all the bs that has followed it. Belinda Stronach running? Why not get Stockwell Day back? At least then there would be something amusing to watch on the news. There seems to be a genuine leadership vacuum on the right, and more than anything I think that is what is likely to propel Martin to a gargantuan majority and (dare I say it - sniffle…) the NDP to official opposition status.
If the right could get a clear mandate, not too far from centre, and with a gifted and charismatic leader (a real leader), they may have a chance, but otherwise, as everyone else has noted (so why am I bothering?) the country will vote Liberal for lack of a better choice. Hell, I think I will be voting Liberal too.
But you’re confusing your battleground. Rae and Hampton are PROVINCIAL leaders. There’s no “NDP can’t win” problem there; the NDP does win provincial elections. Rae, after all, won in 1990.
At the FEDERAL level, however, the “NDP can’t win” problem is directly proportional to the quality of the leadership. I dunno if you remember those debates, but both McLaughlin and McDonough came off as being minor leaguers. Neither, especially McLaughlin, performed well in debates. McLaughlin by all accounts was a smart woman as a very good party organizer, but she was not suited for the task of representing her party to the voters. Classic Peter Principle case in action.
Part of the problem, and the reason the NDP is so weak in Quebec, is that the NDP’s federal party is a mix of the various provincial parties. The “leadership” issue isn’t just the leader, it’s the party organization as a whole. The NDP’s federal wing is a combination of provincial wings, who are understandably more concentrated on provincial elections. That’s not the case for the other major parties, who have independent provincial wings - if you think about it, the Liberals are now the only other party who even share a NAME with a provincial party.
I think Matt is a great guy and he’s very smart, but it says a lot that he could get nominated as (relatively) effortlessly as he did - the NDP in Quebec is very small. He didn’t have to put in years of work or trade on a big reputation to get the honor of a federal nomination. But that means he doesn’t have a strong provincial wing in Quebec fighting for him - and the federal party isn’t centralized enough to offer his riding the support they need to legitimize his campaign. A young unknown with potential - and the NDP needs all the bilingual MPs they can get - needs cash, local kudos from community names, and the leader’s face time. The fact that the NDP just throws a young student into a federal election race, without a lot of that support, to get hammered by the Liberals and BQ demonstrates how poorly they support their candidates from a federal level.
Matt wouldn’t have nearly the same problem if he was running out of Saskatchewan or BC because the NDP has a much more significant organization there. The riding association would already have a large network of workers, local contacts, support from community and business leaders, and the like. In Quebec, they need the federal party to help more to get things started, and until it does they have virtually no prospects in la belle province.
I see what you’re saying about mixing battlegrounds, RickJay, but I percieve the same problem on the federal level. Even if there was a strong leader at the federal level, people wouldn’t vote for him/her because they would think that the NDP, well, can’t win. (Although I am young enough that I have never seen a strong leader at the federal level! Also I have never voted in a federal election that Chretien wasn’t in.)
So, if I get you right, the federal NDP is pretty regionalized? In this case I see Layton as perpetuating it - he’s Toronto’s boy, for one thing, and he’s a City guy, for another. Do you think he can ‘unite’ the federal scene enough that they can have a good showing?
What do you think of this?
Sure he could.
You’re right that some people won’t vote NDP because they can’t win. But that’s to be expected when they only hold twelve or thirteen seats. What they need to do is just work on it; get 30 seats next time, get Opposition status after that.
That’s what the Reform Party could never grasp, for some reason; the idea that it takes some time to build up the goodwill and legitimacy the general public needs to consider you a viable alternative. It was often said Preston Manning and his team could never quite accept that they shouldn’t be in power next week, and they proved the rumours right. The decision to change the party’s name for no reason at all before the 2000 election was a move of such staggering idiocy that it just had to be a committee decision; they did it at just the time that the Reform Party was starting to become an accepted player in federal politics in Ontario. Through the bizarre name change and the decision to dump Manning for a simpleton, they heaved away years of legitimacy and progress in Ontario. And now, for God only knows what reason, they’re doing it again. Granted, at least this time they’re going from a horrible name to a good name, but it’s still not a smooth move 4-6 months before an election.
The NDP needs to just build their base and appeal to all Canadians if they want power. That will not be easy. The NDP is weakly led, and is structured to be weakly led. Having a platform that supports the working class is great; actually being run in large part by powerful unions is really, really stupid, since it pleases nobody and hijacks the party’s direction. Being in favour of social programs is smart and plays well with Canadians; being a member of the Socialist International and trumpeting it is kind of silly. They’re clueless on a lot of issues, but that won’t necessarily hurt them.
If Layton picks three or four principal issues as the focus of his proposed administration and runs a decent campaign on them he can win 30-40 seats or more, and that could be enough to make the NDP the Opposition. That in turn would give them 4-5 years of legitimacy and publicity. The Conservative Party could do the same thing, too, if they would hire a decent leader and not change their frickin’ name again before the next election.
Fair enough. But everyone has to start from somewhere. It’s quite true that the NDP has no base in Quebec - the problem is kind of self-perpetuating (no base -> no members -> no campaign -> no interest -> no base…)
We’re looking forward, though, to much greater attention being paid - Jack’s visited Quebec more times in the year since being elected than Alexa did in her entire tenure. (Though, to be fair, she spent a bunch of time in my riding during the 2002 by-election. She’s really very sweet.)
Pierre Ducasse was also big news here - we’ve had much more press coverage since his leadership bid in Quebec than we had before, particularly in the francophone media. Though the organization will be supporting all of the candidates in the next election, we’re really going to be pushing for Pierre in Manicouagan - a breakthrough in Quebec, I think, would open a lot of doors, especially as the Bloc loses support (it’s been the traditional focus of the leftie vote in this province, which is weird considering how half of them were Tories.)
At any rate, I’m not looking for a big huge campaign, though I will be out there stumping like the earnest little kneedipper I am. And if it should come to pass that the NDP takes off in Quebec, I’d be thrilled, even (hell - especially) if it meant that a higher-profile candidate decided to seek the nomination in this riding.
Yeah, but she is very popular in Hamilton, her home base, and she appeals to many on the left wing of the Liberal Party (like cowgirl presumably). She is involved in a bitter fight for the nomination in her riding that is emblematic of the way the left wing of the Liberals are being pressured by the Martin camp, and I’m sure the NDP is thrilled at the prospect of her bringing a whole bunch like-minded former Liberal voters with her to their party.
I was about to ask someone to explain matt_mcl’s involvement with the NDP in Montreal to me, but on preview I see that it has already been done
It’s always seemed to me from what I know of Sheila’s political life that a man who behaved in the ways that get Sheila tarred as a shrill bitch would enjoy success and popularity.
I’m not necessarily enthusiastic about the idea of someone whose idea of promoting Canadian culture is to mail everyone flags, but she certainly is high-profile.
Agree entirely.
Plus, this could be the beginning of the realization of my fantasy about lefty Liberals jumping ship and heading to the NDP.
Wouldn’t that be the height of irony? The Liberal party fractures into a centre right, centre left party while the CPC fades out and the NDP flourishes.
The man in Canadian politics who most reminds me of Sheila Copps is John Nunziata, who was kicked out of his own party and is now unemployed. As a matter of fact, they were best buds in the Rat Pack. They’re remarkably similar, IMHO, except that Copps didn’t get her ass canned right out of the party.
Good to hear Jack Layton is putting more effort into Quebec. Quebec needs a new party, and the NDP getting votes would take votes from the Bloc, who should be wiped off the electoral map as soon as humanly possible. If Layton is smart enough to campaign in Quebec - and learn some French - you may have the opportunity to snag more votes.
Not that I want an NDP government. Christ, no. But Canada needs effective opposition, and I have a feeling the CPC is DOA.
I like Copps’ positions on social justice issues (gay rights, women’s equality, etc…), but I don’t think she was very well-suited to a “heritage” portfolio. But then again, no one in that cabinet seemed very interested in either history or the arts. It would seem the sort of portfolio you’d give to an artist or a writer.
I haven’t made up my mind about whether I’d like her in the party.
I commented a while ago that the support for the new merged Conservative Party was initially lower than the combined amount the Alliance and the PCs were getting prior to the merger. Haven’t seen any more recent polls, but the same thing seems to be happening with their representation in the Commons: the new Conservative/PC coalition now has fewer MPs than they had separately.
- three PC MPs have announced that they will sit as independents. The three are: Joe Clark, the former party leader and PM; another is André Bachand, the only Quebec MP in either party, and John Herron of New Brunswick.
- one PC MP, Scott Brison, joined the Liberal Party late last year;
- just this week, an Alliance MP, Keith Martin, announced he would not join the new Conservative Party, will sit as and Independent in the next session, and hopes to run as a Liberal in the election.The common theme of all of them is that they think the new Conservative Party is too right-wing, that far from being a merger of the two parties, it was a take-over of the PCs by the Alliance. I’m curious if those early comments are just growing pains for a new party, or if they resonate with the voters.
Latest poll suggests that the NDP may be gaining on the Conservatives: New Party Remains Dormant in the Polls:
I suppose it doesn’t help that Belinda Stronach’s candidacy has been - well, I don’t mean to be unkind, but she looks just like a dumb rich kid whose daddy gave her a big company and made the mistake of forgetting she wasn’t the one who actually built it. I am on record as saying that Stockwell Day was the more stupid and least qualified human to ever lead a major federal party in Canada, but I think Belinda’s gonna give him a run for his money. At least the Stockmeister knew what his OWN opinions were.
A week or so ago, I wrote on another Web site that Stronach’s total qualifications for being the Prime Minister of this country were essentially identical to the qualifications of Paris Hilton, except that Stronach is a Canadian citizen and dresses better, and Hilton is a slightly better public speaker.
The day after, she (Stronach, not Paris Hilton) did a radio interview in Winnipeg that went about as well as a darts tourney at the Centre For The Directionally Impaired… and the next day I read of three different people who compared her to Paris Hilton.
TOP TEN SIGNS YOUR PARTY IS IN TROUBLE:
- People keep comparing the leadership front runner to Paris Hilton.
2 through 10: See #1.
With all due respect to the lady, who might be a nice woman, I see no reason why I’d hire her to do anything, much less be Prime Minister. She has accomplished, in her entire life, precisely nothing beyond being the daughter of Frank Stronach. You can’t even take her seriously as a businesswoman; the only reason we know who she is is that her Dad made her CEO. Hell, Dad didn’t even let her work in Operations.
And there you have one of the reasons the CPC ain’t doing so good. That this twit would even have a chance at the top job does not do wonders for their legitimacy as a serious player. How would the public react if Larry Walker or Martin Brodeur or Jim Carrey were suddenly frontrunners for the Liberal leadership? I bet they know as much about business as Belinda Stronach. At least they got where they were through an honest meritocracy.
What makes you say this? Can you give some examples of what you think makes her incompetent? Her resume looks as impressive as most other CEOs. I quoted from it on the other page of this thread.
Please bear in mind that I have no axe to grind here, and I really know very little about Stronach. But you seem to have awfully strong opinions about her not being legitimate.
Let’s go through her bio here:
Okay, so she was appointed CEO, but it looks like the company so far is in good shape under her leadership.
Did daddy arrange all of this? Is the board of directors a bunch of pawns? I would buy your argument if this were a private company and Daddy could do whatever he wants. But public corporations are held to a higher standard, and she must have received some scrutiny. And did dad control all of these companies?
Reasonably impressive, although you could argue that sheer money and influence bought her way into these things. But still, she’s not exactly Paris Hilton, is she? Whether she attained her positions through influence or not, she seems to work hard and is ambitious.
Now we’re getting a little more serious. Did Dad buy her way onto the Dean’s council at Harvard? Someone must see something in her, huh?
You don’t become the #2 most powerful woman in business just by being an heiress. She’s a mover and shaker, isn’t she? She has influence. People listen to her. The World Economic Forum also seems to think she’s something more than just a bimbo partying on daddy’s credit card.
So what has she done to make you think she’s stupid? It must be something really juicy to override all of the evidence to the contrary.
No you didn’t. You cited various sources stating that she is a powerful businesswoman. You actually did not cite her RESUME, e.g. her experience and education and skills, at all.
I explained this already, but I’ll try again; she is a powerful businesswoman because he father GAVE HER A BIG COMPANY. She did not earn her position as CEO by proving herself as being a businessperson equal in ability to the CEOs of similarly large corporations. She became CEO because she’s the owner’s daughter.
If you want to go over her actual resume, it’s obviously not the resume of a Fortune 500 CEO. She had no equivalent post at another company, has essentially no education, had never held operations posts at Magna. She doesn’t have any operations experience in the auto parts industry at all. I challenge you to find a CEO of such an important company with as slim a resume as hers. Sam, you surely do not believe that Belinda Stronach was hired to the Board of Directors at the age of 22 because of her extensive knowledge of Tier 1 automotive supply, as opposed to who her Dad was? Paging Miss Hilton.
By comparison, take a real CEO’s resume - say, Carly Fiorina, CEO of Hewlett-Packard, an interesting comparison because she’s close to Stronach in age and in being a tall blonde. Fiorina had twenty years of operations experience, working her way up from peon to VP-ops at Lucent, before getting the job at HP. She’s served on the boards of actually independent companies, like Cisco Systems and Merck. Her Dad did not give her any of those jobs, so far as I can tell.
Um, well, yes, Sam. Actually, he does control them, and always has. Those companies were all spinoffs of Magna International and the majority of their voting shares were held by Magna. This information is freely available on their Web sites.
And yes, Sam, she DID buy her way into the Harvard Business School’s board of directors and the various charity boards and such she sits on. Of course, that’s perfectly justified, as she who pays the piper should call the tune. I don’t begrudge the Stronachs for wanting a say in how their money is spent. I sure as hell would.
I don’t mean to beat up on poor Belinda, but what we have here is, I believe (but maybe there is another case I am missing) the first case in the history of our country where a person has a serious shot at leading a political party entirely due to them being rich. At least if it was FRANK Stronach or someone like that buying a leadership, you could say “Well, the man sure built one hell of a company.” You can’t say that about B. Stronach. She’s accomplished precisely diddly on her own that was not the direct result of her father’s wealth.
Huh? Why not? Someone who controls Magna International has immense power in Canadian business. I cannot think of two other businesswomen in Canada who wield such power.