Inspired from thread http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.phb?threadid=94042 I was inspired to start this topic. Threat titled “casablanca vs. gone with the wind.”
I think we can all agree that from many movies in the past we see some negative potrayals of certain groups of people. Potrayals that just wouldn’t be accepted by mainstream America if they were released in movies today. My question is this. Do potryals that upset the sensibilities of modern society cheapen a movie or make it any less of a classic?
Let’s take Gone with the Wind for example. I can understand how people might be offended by the potrayal of the black characters. But in my opinion this doesn’t make Gone with the Wind any less of a great movie. Likewise referring to Sam as “boy” in Casablanca doesn’t take away from a great movie either. Personally I’m more offended when they attempt to whitewash history in more recent movies being made but that’s another topic.
I really hate the idea of movies never being shown or altered because they contain things that people might find offensive today. I’ve heard rumors of ET digitally removing guns in its DVD debut and we’ve all seen the infamous scene where Greedo fires first. What movies have you seen that most people consider classics but was completely ruined because of racism, sexism, or some other ism?
“The Dam Busters” is a favorite movie of mine (it’s a true story too), but one of the main characters has a pet dog named “Nigger”. I think if they ever remake that movie they will think up a different name for the dog.
I thought about this (but didn’t mention it) during the Breakfast at Tiffany’s thread: Mickey Rooney cast as a Japanese, complete with eye tape. The only thing that spoiled the film for me.
And we don’t even want to get started on offensive portrayals of women…
I think the same situation applies with older books and radio shows (like “Amos and Andy”) that today do not seem “politically correct.” The viewers, listeners and readers are going to have different feelings, I imagine. Personally I understand the different periods of time when movies, radio shows and books were created, so I am not so offended as some might be. I don’t approve of certain things, but just regard it all as history.
To answer the Q, the old classic film, “Flower Drum Song,” comes to mind. There are some Chinese stereotypes. Also, those old Al Jolson movies where dark makeup is put on a white guy to make him look black.
As much as I adore GWTW, Prissy makes me cringe, and as much as I SWOON over Clark Gable, the part where he carries Scarlett upstairs-we know it’s not really rape, but me, angry sex-for both of them-it’s a little like, 'uuuuuummmmmm…"
But are these movies any less classic because of things we’d find negative today that was generally accepted in the past? I’m with Violet on this one. Even though some movies have offensive things in them it doesn’t make them any less of a movie. Granted we wouldn’t accept certain character potrayals today. But to hold that against movies made in another era is just as unfair as complaining about poor special effects.
Marc
PS: I’m more offended by historical whitewashing seen in more recent movies. For example Mel Gibson’s slave free plantation in The Patriot.
Amazing I never knew such a thing existed! Apparently the toontracker reviewer considers it a mini-masterpiece.
"This January marked the fifty-fifth anniversary of one of the greatest, most energetic cartoon shorts ever made. Nearly every animation critic and historian extant believe this short to be an unmitigated masterpiece. It’s creator, possibly at the height of his imaginative powers at the time he produced this work, is a legendary member of the Animation Hall of Fame. When 1,000 animation professionals gathered in 1994 to select the fifty greatest cartoons of all time, this cartoon finished in the top half of that revered roll call. Yet, many ardent animation aficionados have likely never seen it. It will not be released to theaters. It will probably never air on network or cable television. And it can only be found on tape if one really knows where to look. By now you have probably guessed the identity of The Toon That Dares Not Speak Its Name…Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs. "
You think this is bad with movies? How about schools removing The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn from libraries, because Jim is referred to as “nigger”?
I love the film “Giant.” In it, the son of the successful Texas rancher marries a Mexican-American woman, and the dad never really gets over it fully. While he’s happy to see his son happy, he makes cracks about his “little brown grandchildren,” etc. Even so, his wife (Elizabeth Taylor) scolds him and there’s a sense that he’s being a bigot and ought to know better. It just goes on a little longer than it would today without becoming a moral theme of the film. I don’t find it terribly offensive, but an interesting contrast to today.
IMHO, the offensive parts of Birth of a Nation do not make it any less classic. It was truly the first “modern” movie.
The fact that it contains such offensive material, though, requires that it be shown with commentary and discussion. A college class is the perfect place to view and discuss this film.
Well, there’s that immortal Henry Fonda line from MY DARLING CLEMENTINE: “You idiot. You know better than to give liquor to an Indian.”
Or the scene in CIMARRON, the Academy Award winner for Best Picture, where the young black boy gets visibly excited while passing a watermelon stand.
Or this little exchange from THE GREAT SCOUT AND CATHOUSE THURSDAY:
Kay Lenz (frightened): Are you gonna rape me?
Lee Marvin: Nah, I ain’t gonna rape you.
Kay Lenz (angry): Well, why not? Ain’t I good enough for you?
There was a scene from a Charlie Chan movie where the police are investigating a murder and questioning a group of Arab suspects. One cop gets annoyed at the procedure and says “How many of these Ali Babas are we going to have to talk to?”
And pretty much every frame of the John Ford film DECEMBER 7TH.
And pretty much every frame of every Zalman King movie ever made.
You want offensive? Check out the Marx Brothers classic “Duck Soup.” There’s a scene wwith Groucho as Rufus T. Firefly carrying on a conversation with Ambassador Trentino (Louis Calhern) about an insult. Trentino tells Firefly he may have been a little headstrong. Groucho says, “I’ve always been a little headstrong. My mother was a little armstrong. The Headstrongs married the Armstrongs. And that’s why darkies were born!”
Or for that matter, look at “You Can’t Cheat an Honest Man,” a W. C. Fields classic. There’s a scene when Fields calls over to a group of African-Americans at the circus and says “Which one of you is the head Ubangi?” One of them (I think it may have been Eddie “Rochester” Anderson) says, “You wouldn’t be referring to us coloreds here would you?” Fields says, “No, I was looking for someone interested in making some money” Anderson then says, “Oh! You mean the HEAD Ubangi.”
I once had a girlfriend who hated the Beach Boys because of their song “California Girls.” She said it was demeaning to women. Well, if it had been written in 1985 (when we were dating), it WOULD have been demeaning, but in 1965 I think Brian Wilson meant it as honest praise.
I don’t think you can ascribe anything thing so noble to the movie examples I’ve cited above. Those are nothing but racial slurs. But I don’t think the movies they come from can be condemned so much as the times in which the movies were made. They demonstrate that racism was not a dirty little secret. It was accepted in so-called “polite society.” If anything, I think examples of offensive speech and behavior in bona fide “classic” films needs to be shown often as an example of the way our society was and also to remind us that while we have in fact made great strides in terms of racial harmony, the cut is so deep we may never be able to overcome the harm that was ongoing a mere generation or two ago.
“Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs” is ranked #21 in the fifty greatest cartoons of all time (voted by 1000 animation profressionals). It is a great cartoon, but obviously not politically correct, and certainly offensive to some.
Many older works do have a sort of “innocent” racism, where the people are just repeating stereotypes of the time without thinking. As a modern viewer, it should be possible to say, “Yup, that’s terrible” while still appreciating the work for its other virtues.
I just assumed everyone in the free world knew who Greedo was! He was that green skinned bounty hunter that Han Solo shoots in the first Star Wars movie. In the original movie Han Solo draws his blaster and blows Greedo away before he knew what hit him. It was a really great scene that showed what a cool head Han had. In the special edition they have Greedo firing first and somehow managing to miss Han Solo even though he’s about three feet away from him. It completely ruined the scene.
The first thing I thought of when I read the OP was “Coal Black and De Sebben Dwarfs”. That’s one great cartoon by the way.
The thing that really bothers me is why they never rerun “The Jack Benny Show”. Most people I’ve asked about this agree that it’s because Rochester is probably considered “Un-PC”. That’s a shame, becuase in my opinion “Jack Benny” is one of the best sitcoms ever.