I’ve disagreed with catsix in threads about feminism and women’s rights before—vehemently and with considerable vitriol—and will probably do so again.
But unless you can demonstrate some sort of logical connection between that issue and her argument in this thread, i think you’re barking up the wrong tree here.
By all means disagree with her (and with me) in this thread; i’m happy to debate people on what i think is a very important issue. But i really don’t see how catsix’s position on law enforcement and her position on feminism are connected, notwithstanding CanvasShoes’s rather poor attempt to link them.
There isn’t a logical link, other than catsix’s angry and self-proclaimed “poor me” victim status. That’s the whole point, she goes off like this about everything.
Picture of him here and a video of him in a recent Hitachi video camera commercial with a fairly famous actress in Japan is here (note: swf file with sound).
Even funnier - when they get her on her feet, she shuts up INSTANTLY. Talks a bit. Then starts in with the ‘ooooh oooh ooohs’ so much that I didn’t know if she was in pain or in the midst of a moment of rapture
My apologies. I really didn’t notice that I had ignored your question.
He hasn’t been with them on late-night traffic stops, no, but he has gone on quite a few raids, gone along to serve warrants, and was once even in a high-speed car chase. (Man, I wish I could have gone along for that one!) He’s also done a lot of stake-outs and investigative work with them. Basically, you probably can’t work with cops more without actually *being *a cop. He works with both local police and state troopers and of almost all ranks.
That’s true, but if you spend time with people and they become unguarded around you, you learn a lot about them. Hubby’s one of those kinds of people that for some reason, everyone treats as their personal psychiatrist. People who are itching for a fight aren’t usually shy about it. In other words, a man or woman who is telling Hubby about the intimate troubles in their marriage isn’t exactly trying to conceal their true demeanor.
I have met people in my time who are the kind of people who like to prod others into confrontations and get a kick out of their power over others. They’re in every walk of life, and in my experience, they aren’t all that difficult to identify. They make jokes about hurting people or voice what they wish they could do to them if they had a chance. They make hostile comments and the like which leave you little doubt what kind of person they are. I’m certainly not claiming to be a perfect judge of character, but a bully usually wants everyone to know they’re a bully.
I getcha, but it really is a little bit more than a casual hello at a barbecue. Hubby works closely with law enforcement officials on an almost daily basis. He’s become close friends with some of them, and he’s also tapped in to the gossip grapevine. (And in my experience, law enforcement folks are as gossipy as a ladies’ sewing cricle.)
Unless I see the video myself, I tend to take media reports of such things with a grain of salt. They have a habit of twisting facts to make them look more outrageous. As a small example, a media outlet may have a piece on a certain number of complaints filed. On the surface it looks awful, but a good deal of complaints are found to be without basis, even by independant civilian review boards.
I read an interesting article about parents in Britian the other day. They took a survey of a large number of English households, and the majority of the parents said that the world around their children was “significantly less safe” than it was when they were children and that the numbers of murders of children had “greatly increased” over the past thirty years. The article noted that the number of violent acts against children had actually stayed about the same over that thirty year period. It’s just that parents had seen so many stories of kidnappings, molestations and murders that they were certain the number of crimes must have been larger than when they were kids.
I submit that the same is true with police brutality stories. If you look back at our law enforcement thirty or forty years ago, you will see a vast improvement in respect for human rights. 'Twas a time, not so long ago, that blacks were openly beaten on a bridge as they knelt peacefully to pray for equality.
The Rodney King incident further raised our conciousness, as well it should. No one should ever feel they can abuse others with impunity. Media organizations scrutinize the police, looking for a story. Citizens groups guard them like hawks. Every citizen grabs a camcorder when they see the cops arresting someone. The atmosphere today is much, much more open to scrutiny than it was, and I’m glad for it.
When we hear of such incidents, they stick out in our minds, just like you’ll remember the screaming brat at the resturant, but may not have noticed the children who were dining quietly.
I would never claim that law enforcement officers are infallible. They’re humans and have the same weaknesses as the rest of mankind. When bad officers are discovered, they should be rooted out of their positions.
*Understandably, * perhaps, but not, in my opinion, reasonably. I’m innately hostile to all forms of prejudice, and, to me, saying “all cops are bullies” is the same as saying, “All blacks are criminals” or “All lawyers are crooks.” Anyone challenged on a statement like that can always come up with enough atecdotal evidence to support their prejudice, at least in their own minds. But, as is frequently pointed out on this board, the plural of anecdote is not “data.”
I am not about to judge an entire group of people based on the behavior of a few of its members.
Yeah, as I understand, the device shoots out little metal darts which pierce into the skin. The darts are connected to the device by wires. The wires have a bit of length-- twenty or so feet if memory serves.
For pete’s sake…I don’t really care how much you post about your “hubby” and I happen to agree with you on this issue, but were you so eager to share “hubby’s” experiences that you didn’t notice the question was asked of YOU? Have YOU been on the traffic stops? Have YOU seen them do their jobs? That’s what the poster was asking.
No, I haven’t been along on the drug busts or anything like that. It’s not a matter of being “eager” to share Hubby’s experiences, it’s that I believe him when he describes them to me. I was generically combining our experiences, both work and social.
He wasn’t always deputy warden. His last position was as the investigator-- basically the cop of the prison, investigating contraband and crimes comitted in the prison. When people on the outside are smuggling contraband into the prison, it becomes both a police and prison investagatory issue. Both of them do their own investigations.
Since he’s been promoted to deputy warden he hasn’t gone on a raid in a while, (for which I’m grateful) but he still keeps his bullet-proof vest handy. He mostly supervises internal investigations these days, but still has frequent contact with officers and prosecutors.
Have you heard the story about the guy who switched churches every month or so? Someone asked him why he changed so often. His answer was, “Every church I’ve been to has been a lousy, mean place.” The questioner responded with, “Maybe it 's not the church.”
I’m not counting on your current nemisis to draw the connection.
As i’ve already said in this thread, my stepfather’s a retired cop and, as far as i have been able to tell from twenty-some years of personal interactions with him, a good man. I believe he’s an honest an upright person, and i like to think that, as a cop, he was straight as an arrow.
But, to be perfectly honest, if he wasn’t, there’s no way for me to know. There are things that police just don’t tell people who aren’t cops. Not just illegal or unethical things, but everyday stuff to do with the job. And crooked cops probably don’t broadcast the fact, not even to family members.
For every bad cop who’s ever been busted for taking bribes or beating suspects or getting in bed with the mob, there are probably dozens of friends and family members who wonder what the hell happened. When LA’s corrupt Rampart division was busted up and torn apart a few years ago, there were probably houses full of people exclaiming how they couldn’t believe that such good men could be guilty of such bad things.
I’m not saying your husband is holding back or lying, Lissa. Nor am i saying you shouldn’t trust him, or even that he’s wrong about the particular police officers that he’s dealt with. I’m just saying that your anecdotal testimony is rather uncompelling as evidence for the general state of law enforcement.
I’m not defending catsix’s generalizations either. I think there are plenty of good cops out there. But while you and others understandably get tired of people who constantly think the worst about law enforcement, some of us also get tired of those who seem hell-bent on implying that the bad apples are one in a million.
So what! You’re saying that she has some RIGHT to drive 51 mph in a 35 mph zone? The evil man was putting her down by not allowing her to speed?
No that’s not what you are saying. You are saying that the cop was a racist.
Fuck you to stupid son of a bitch.
Rosa Parks was told to move by a white passenger, then the bus driver. Not real fucking authority figures, not really an equal authority figure as a police man.
Do not equate this woman to Rosa Parks again. That is offensive. That lowers not only Rosa Parks but people who actually fucking died for the civil rights movement and it shows you, GorillaMan, to be an idiot.
Now I don’t know what you got in the link in the OP, but I got a clear video of the entire incident and then two more with a commentary track by a police officer who trains other police officers and he is talking to a reporter about the incident.
The officer in the video tells her to get out of the car. SHE says to the person on the phone that she is being arrested. She thinks she is being arrested and she fails to comply with clear instructions given to her from a police officer. Then she starts in with the bullshit fake crying like a fucking toddler who wants another cookie.
And then YOU compare her to Rosa Parks.
Somehow, I don’t think presidents will be speaking at this woman’s funeral.
Cops MUST be held to a much higher standard than you or I. If we can’t trust them, then the law is held in contempt and people will adopt an attitude of “it’s ok as long as I don’t get caught”.
The one cop I knew as an almost-friend was, as far as I can tell, honest. He wasn’t obviously living beyond his means or anything, but any suggestion that ANY cop might have been wrong, or that any cops actions should be investigated by anyone but another cop, was met with vehement denials. We ignorant civilians just can’t ever understand how hard cops have it, so we should not be allowed to judge them. Cops are above the law because they are enforcing the law, so back off because you JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND!
And I’ve not heard any reason to believe things have changed since then. The media watching like hawks for any cop to make a mistake is used as justification for the… what’s it called? “The Blue Wall” or something? But if this unofficial policy didn’t exist, we wouldn’t need the media to watch them, nor civilian oversight committees. But cops don’t bust cops. This attitude isn’t going to come out in casual conversation - “Hey Joe, how’s it going?”, “Well you know, I think all cops are beyond the law and little Stevie has a cold.” Nor are they likely to casually mention that they just lied to a jury to cover up for their partner shooting the wrong guy (no, I’m not accusing anyone of anything, this is an example of what I believe many people feel the police do on a regular basis)
I’ve never before heard anyone say that the blue wall is to cover when someone is a few minutes late for work.
My real-life experience with police? A couple of speeding tickets, one warning for a cracked windshield, watching the Jefferson County Sherriff explain the Columbine fiasco, and knowing a Denver detective for a few years. I certainly have no axe to grind, the vast majority of the time we treat each other professionally and call each other “sir” and go about our business. Doesn’t mean that I think they should be allowed to run red lights to get to Denny’s for their break, or that I’m comfortable with people who believe they are above the law being responsible for enforcing it.
All that said, it sure looks like the driver deserved a taser upside the head.
After seeing the whole video, I don’t see how anyone can say the officer was out of line. He had a legitimate reason for pulling her over (speeding, no seatbelt, cracked windshield, taillight out)and this woman foolishly mouthed off to him and in general acted like a real bitch. She had a suspended license in the first place, so it would have been in her best interest to cooperate with the officer.
Yeah, I’ve had a few experiences with the police that pissed me off. But I’ve had other positive experiences that have shown me that cop doesn’t equal “bullying asshole”. Heck, I’ve even had a policeman give me a break before when they didn’t have to. (speeding, the cop gave me a verbal warning instead of a ticket, a state trooper gave me warning when I illegally passed someone and almost collided with his cruiser!, a policewoman once gave me ride to a gas station and back to my car when I ran out of gas in the middle of bumfuck nowhere)
So I don’t think cops are just jerks out to step on people. The officer in this video gave the loudmouth crazy woman several chances to comply. When an officer asks you to step out of the car he or she doesn’t know what you’re gonna do. Are you going to try to attack? Do you have a concealed weapon? Why should he put himself at risk? A rough comparison is a week after 9/11 I was on guard duty outside a US installation. A local national was found on a cell phone in a car in a restricted area at 2 AM. Yeah, he grumbled about being ordered out of the car (I had radioed for the local cops to come, but for the moment I was on my own) He really complained after I pointed a weapon at him. Was he dangerous? I didn’t know, but I wasn’t going to give him the chance to hurt me…simple…get out of the car, or I’ll force you out of the car since I’m legally authorized to order you out of the car.
I think the officer in this video deserves some respect for his restraint.
Goddammit Lissa - this is the Pit! Why are you apologizing? Where are the four-letter words, the illogical, contradictory, and completely unfounded opinions, the broad-brush stereotypical painting, the barbed retorts?
<grumble>The Pit ain’t what it used to be when I was a kid…</grumble>
Though seemingly impossible, that woman is even more stupid than I originally thought.
Anyway, one thing that caught my attention was a comment made by the officer near the end, something like “We’ve all been tasered before, it’s not that bad”.
I know that it is in my area-- I don’t know about nation-wide. Hubby had to be tasered, and gassed with various chemical munitions as part of his training for the prison. He said it’s not a pleasant experience, but it wasn’t all that bad. He also said that he’d much rather be tasered than hit with pepperspray or the other gasses they use. With a taser, the pain only lasts for a little while, whereas your eyes can be stinging for hours after being hit with pepperspray.
