Well, this is going nowhere. Feel free to declare victory, as I am departing the field rather than respond in kind.
That’s an unorthodox use of the word “nice”…
It’s because the != expression is hurting manhattan’s little brain. Try again using small words and lots of coding, like this:
-
The Bush campaign is airing on its website an ad which compares certain Democrats to Hitler.
-
An organization that raises money for the Democratic party pulled from its website an ad comparing Bush to Hitler.
In #1, an ad is aired. In #2, an ad is pulled. See? There’s nothing similar about the two. Except for Hitler.
Also, in #1 an ad is put out by an actual political campaign. In #2 an ad is pulled by a political action committee. Again, nothing is similar. Except for Hitler.
For some reason, manhattan and others believe that the situations in #1 and #2 are exactly the same. I do not know why.
Ah. Sorry about the ‘disingenuous’ bit, then John.
The change occured sometime within 36 hours of the OP, I believe.
MsRobyn, I know you’re not serious. Please tell me you’re pulling my leg. That sentence from your OP, and requoted by you:
That quote was clearly a reference to your (now obviously false) accusation. the “slimy campaign tactics” referred to your claim that Bush compared Kerry to Hitler. I mean, look at your summary in the thread title, for gosh sake!
You can’t revise history, MsRobyn. Do the right thing. Send an apology to Bush. And do what you said you’d do (“Had I seen this ad on Kerry’s or the DNC’s website, I’d’ve fired off the same e-mail.”) Change the names, and send it off to Kerry.
Or if you won’t retract your false accusation, and you won’t do as you promised, at least say so. But don’t claim you’ve been misunderstood. It’s there at the top of this thread in black and white. In your hand, MsRobyn.
Hi Bill H. I don’t believe we’ve met.
Shut the fuck up.
The ad pretty clearly tried to put Hitler in as “one of the guys” among Dems. Even re-edited, it’s still scummy to pretend that the Hitler ads were supported or endorsed by MoveOn.org or any of the Democrats featured.
What Apos said.
Doesn’t matter what the Dems did, because I didn’t see it. Had I seen it, I would’ve complained. I didn’t see the Dems’ ad, but I did see the Republican ad.
So take Apos’ advice and shut the fuck up.
Robin
We have got to get you two another machine.
Oh, I dunno. Think its kinda cute, in a Karma and Greg sort of way. Besides, no one bitches when your evil twin posts.
Ya know what bums me out? It’s the complete lack of original thought on any of the Bush/Cheney ads. Last week, I moaned as I saw the “John Kerry/Priceless” ad. Now they attempt to dig up a hack job ad made by unknown ametuers, and actually manage to edit it and produce a final product and message that looks worse.
At least Willie Horton was a clear and original spot.
This is slighly off topic, but why the fuck can’t Soros compare the direction of this country to the direction of Nazi Germany? This is a guy that obviously knows and was directly affected by Nazi Germany.
Now that I think about it, why can’t anyone compare this country to Nazi Germany? Hell, the right does it, when they point out how, with regards to gun control, our society is much like Nazi Germany. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, and there’s nothing wrong with saying this country is more like Nazi Germany now than when Clinton was in power.
About Gore’s comments, it’s obviously an exaggeration, but there certainly in some truth to what he says. Plus, it’s in the middle of a really kick-ass speech. And it’s very amusing that out of that whole speech, in which he rips the administration to shreds, a single comment about “digital brownshirts” has all these right-wing bloggers all upset.
Compare and consider the HR guidelines being used for other, very important jobs:
The job of reorganizing Baghdad’s stock exchange, which has not reopened, was given in September to a 24-year-old who had sought a job at the White House. “It was loyalty over experience,” a senior CPA official said.
Washington Post Foreign Service
That’s a wonderfully simple sumation of the whole thing. Wonderfully simple and wonderfully wrong. If you go back and read what Manhattan is actually saying, you’ll see that he is concerned with Gore comparing the current administration to Nazis in a speach, not the ads submited to MoveOn in their contest.
How on earth can you even compare a 30-second ad on the Bush campaign’s website with a passing mention of “brownshirt” by some guy who used to be a politician?
A negative ad that attacks the opponent by falsely accusing him of using negative ads. It’s the Big Lie principle. If you shout something loud enough, a lot of people will believe it regardless of what the facts are. A couple of months from now all a lot of people are going to remember about this ad is some vague recollection that Kerry called Bush a Nazi or something like that. So when Bush sponsors future attack ads, his supporters will claim Kerry started it. This is genius level sleaze and brilliance - you know Karl Rove was all over this.
Because, at best it’s silly and impossible to take seriously and at worst it’s a grave insult.
The Nazi regime was one of the most hideous in recent history (if not ALL of history!), and to compare things like gun control or the Patriot act to Nazism is absurd. (That’s NOT to say that there aren’t abuses of our rights with either-there are. But nowhere NEAR as bad as the Nazis).
You won’t be taken seriously, and you cheapen the analogy.
Anyone can; however, the epithets of Nazism have been defamations of choice for the empassioned yet ignorant, (or dishonest), and have lost much of their original meaning, becoming instead a shibboleth of the emotionally unbalanced and intellectually lazy.
One should have a specific set of comparisons and contexts to use when making such comparisons for them to have any weight at all. Yet even then, the comparisons may not be warranted because of the extensive connotations of Nazism. Unfavorable comparisons to things Nazi are an implication of great evil. Often, it seems, this strong implication is not justifiable.
That being said, I’ve often wondered what went on in the popular culture of immediately pre-Nazi Germany and during the subsequent rise to prominence of the Nazis. How did the average Hans justify what to himself and others? What was the rationale that sold the push to Empire? Did the average person realize what they were getting their country into?
I wonder what it must’ve looked like to those on the inside. How does one recognize such things?
First of all, I haven’t done so, Manhattan did, I figured that since you seemed dead set on arguing with him, you would want to be arguing with what he actually said.
Second, Al Gore is far more than “some guy who used to be a politician”, I daresay he has more “face” recognition in America as a prominent Democrat than even John Kerry; to claim that because he’s not the candidate or an official part of the Kerry campaign his remarks are meaningless in the context of the Democratic Party is disingeneous to a degree that would make even Karl Rove raise an eyebrow.
slight hijack…
Have you read Hitler’s Willing Executioners by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen? It does a decent job of answering these (and other) questions.
No, never. Thanks. I’ll see what the local library has to offer.