I’d like to think I speak for most people when I say that I find those ‘mad’ smilies utterly reprehensible.
Obviously only a fuckwit would be mad about the deaths of hundreds of children.
(right?)
Plain and simple - unleash the fucking dogs of war on these terrorists and their supporters. No amount of intellectual debate on this subject matters.
The cold-blooded killing young children who have gathered at their school?
No words can adequately describe the reprehensible mindset and actions of these terrorists. No perversion of any religion can allow this. No amount of justification from their experience can rationalize the direct murder of children. None.
If anything outcome can possibly be derived from this tragedy, let it be that on this day, the direction and attention of the world grimly and resolutely turned towards the merciless eradication of terrorism. Let them be hunted down and annihilated like soulless vermin. Let their supporters feel the world’s wrath.
These are abyssmal days for the human race.
Aldebaran: all concepts of guilt or blame aside; isn’t there a pragmatic interest for responsible Muslims to provide vocal opposition to fundementalist Muslims?
You may not deserve it, but many westeners have the mistaken belief that Islam advocates terrorism.
And can you really blame them? It seems that all the time we’re hearing about suicide bombings, or young men going off to the Jyhad in this or that nation, or hostage takers, or Al Queda… We hear about the promise of ‘fourty virgins in paradise for martyrs.’ We hear Islamic terrorists claiming that they’re doing Allah’s will, that they’re acting from religous motivations, etc…
Wouldn’t there be much less confusion if moderate Muslim clerics spent their time decrying such practices? If every time there was an incident, the entire American Muslim community (for example) condemned the terrorists as murderous pigs, and specifically for perverting their religion?
And, if atheists in this country started killing people, and claimed their atheism as the justification, I do think it would be wise for American Athetists to vocally condemn the terrorists as ‘not acting from on atheist principles.’
All I’m saying is, if the Muslim community around the world were seen to be fighting terrorism as fiercely as the west is, alliance and understanding would be much easier.
I mean, honestly, could anybody, no matter how bigoted, honestly think that all Muslims were bad if after any so-called-muslim-terrorists killed some folks the Muslim communities in their countries were the first and most vocal in their condemnation?
P.S. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Islam is the only major world religion never to undergo a ‘reformation’. Perhaps it is time to differentiate from splinter groups in your religion which claim they speak in your name?
P.P.S. From what I understand, Islam is a religion of peace. And yet its prime manifestation on the global stage is seen as one of theocracy and terrorism. Again, maybe it is time for a religous reformation in order to distance yourselves from concepts of ‘violent struggle?’
I found this article to be very interesting.
"Ahmed Bahgat, an Egyptian Islamist, wrote in his column in Egypt’s leading pro-government newspaper, Al-Ahram, that hostage-takers in Russia as well as in Iraq are only harming Islam.
“If all the enemies of Islam united together and decided to harm it … they wouldn’t have ruined and harmed its image as much as the sons of Islam have done by their stupidity, miscalculations, and misunderstanding of the nature of this age,” Bahgat wrote. "
It’s sad because it’s true.
Numbers are now over 340. From http://start.earthlink.net/newsarticle?cat=0&aid=904124546_5301_lead_story :
Fuck. 
Please note that I’m not advocating this as a solution, just tossing it out as a radical idea…
When christianity came along it overturned the “eye for an eye” idea and replaced it with the “turn the other cheek” idea. However, judaism and islam still tend toward the “eye for an eye” philosophy so maybe the best thing to do would be to speak to them in their own language.
Therefore Russia could capture 1000 Chechen children and execute them at the rate of one a minute.
Next time the chechens hijack a school, Russia executes 5000 chechen children. The next time, they execute 10 000 and so on.
Eye for an eye.
Whilst this idea has a thousand moral and political objections to it, I wonder whether it would work. At the very least it might persuade the chechens not to hijack any more schools??
That plain and simple solution has failed. The dogs of war have been roaming Czechnya for decades.This is what Grozny looked like after the Russian army was done fighting the Czechen rebels there in 1996. Didn’t work.
I totally fucking agree. Assholes.
Less we forget.
From http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1045832004 [amongst others]
More than 540 people remained in hospital, at least 330 of them children. Several of the most badly injured survivors were transferred to Moscow for medical treatment, among them an 18-month-old said to have been the subject of a barbaric knife attack by militants.
Meanwhile, it remained unclear who had organised and executed the attack although at least 10 Arabs were among the 35 hostage-takers confirmed dead. The Russian news agency ITAR-Tass quoted a high-ranking intelligence official in southern Russia as saying that the school seizure and other major terrorist attacks in Russia had been financed by Abu Omar As-Seyf, an Arab who allegedly represents al-Qaeda in the rebel republic of Chechnya.
The official claimed that the operation was masterminded by rebel leader Shamil Basayev and led by field commander Magomed Yevloyev, who was believed to be the leader of the strict Wahhabi sect of Muslims in Ingushetia, which borders Chechnya.
At this point, I think the Russians should just pull out of Chechnya completely, taking everything of use with them. Demolish the buildings, tear down the power plants, blow up the dams, raze the country to the ground. Then seal the border and let the Chechens rot.
Yes, because it’s entirely impossible that there are anything resembling innocent civilians in there, who might want to maybe live a normal life. Besides which, with the exception of withdrawing troops, this is exactly what the Russians have been doing. Want to see demolition? Here’s your fucking demolition. This dangerous terrorist is walking away from her freshly dynamited house. This is how Chechens live. Perhaps this is the “anything of use” you are referring to. All’s not lost though; the local marketplace has a thriving soft drink concession.
So, what the fuck do you propose to take away from these people that has not already been taken? Their hats?
You are comtemptible scum.
Talking about contemptible scum:
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=577454§ion=news
Alina Khubechova celebrated her 11th birthday the day before Chechen separatists seized her school last week. Four days later her grief-stricken parents buried her on Sunday, grasping a picture of the pretty brown-haired girl with white ribbons in her hair.
Official accounts say forces moved on the school gymnasium on Friday after Chechen separatists holding 1,000 people hostage started firing on children fleeing in panic from two explosions.
It was the bloodiest end to a hostage crisis in decades.
Half the dead were children. The rest were teachers, parents and relatives attending festivities on the first day of term.
In Italy, the Imam of Colle Val d’Elsa (Siena), has called for a three day fast to protest the carnage.
(link in Italian)
Good stuff.
Kudos to him.
Ironically, Grozny was originally built as a Russian military outpost, all the better for the Tsar’s armies to base themselves during their 19th century Caucasian conquests.
May I be the first to suggest that you hop on a plane for Grozny ASAP, if the airport is even still functioning. You can be part of the Russian withdrawal planning commission. I’d love to see what kind of reception you’d get.
Fuck you, mhendo.
The deliberate slaughter of children is inexcusable, no matter what the provocation. I really don’t give a bloody damn what the Chechen people have gone through. The deliberate, measured targeting of children loses your side any standing whatsoever, no matter what your opponents have done. That is why the Palestinians get absolutely zero sympathy from me, and that is why the Chechens get zero sympathy. I don’t care if the Russians have been raping the country for centuries. All that means is they don’t get any sympathy either. But you target legitimate military targets, or you are nothing more than pig-fucking slime.
Wow. You really believe this, don’t you. You godawful shithead. How can you be such a fucking cretin that the world really is this black and white for you? Nearly half a million people live in Chechnya; 40 committed this atrocity. Are you really such a monumental fucking arsehole that you are willing to condemn an entire region to utter destitution, because you refuse to distinguish between terrorists and civilians? Can’t you see that this is precisely what the terrorists do?
Did you look at what the Russians have done to Chechnya? Do you have any conception what-so-fucking-ever of what life there is like? Because those people aren’t out killing children; they’re having their husbands stolen and their houses exploded, because fucking cunts like you can’t see past their own fucking noses. They don’t want children murdered, they want their lives back. They want their own children able to go to school, and not have to sell expended munitions for scrap metal. They want to be able to live in houses that don’t get dynamited. The men want to be able to go outside without getting disappeared. They’ve done nothing wrong, but who cares, as long as we do the opposite of what the terrorists want, eh?
This is just one more calamity of terrorism; through their reprehensible actions they’ve given twats like you, and bigger twats like Putin, all the excuse they need to repress the Chechens even longer. And in the middle, life gets shittier for both the Chechens, and the innocents that the terrorists attack. Views like yours are simply grease on the machine. Should you have any interest whatsoever in combating your stultifying ignorance regarding Chechnya, you could do worse than reading this article. Shades of grey are contained therein, however, so try not to let your head explode.
You really need me to say it?
I think we ALL understand the deep-seated desire to slowly crush the life out of child killers, to make them suffer and scream and we rip out toenails, slowly disembowel, boil alive —
>ahem<
Yes, we all understand how one could have an impulse to commit mayhem.
It is also true that “an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth” eventually leaves everyone blind and toothless. It is not enough to take revenge - what we really need is an end to the madness.
Let’s see - Russia has been doing a fine job of beating the hell out of Chechnya for some time. It doesn’t seem to have solved anything, although they recently had an election there where a Kremlin-backed candidate won. Maybe folks are just tired and have decided life under the Evil Russian Overlords is preferable to getting the shit blown out of their towns on a regular basis I don’t know.
The comtemptible bastards who pulled off this outrage — they are using the Chechnians for their own evil ends. Do this to help Chechnya? What the FUCK? Anyone who knows anything about the Russians know that such actions are far more likely to provoke genocide than retreat and peace treaties. Indeed, I’d say the hostage-takers and baby-killers are worse enemies of Chechnya than the Russians are at this point - the Russians would like an end to the fighting, too. The walking human excretement that created this obscene disater actually WANT war… now that is fucking incredibly sick.
If they are connected to Al-Qaeda or Islamic Fundamentalists or whatever the hell we’re calling these war-mongerers this week … well it’s the same crowd who encourages Palestinians to kill themselves to keep that conflict going, and murder people in Iraq who are trying to rebuild that country or just trying to get some work like 12 Nepalese recently executed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time and… well, there IS evil in the world, boys and girls.
One thing we DO have to get away from is this pernicious concept of collective guilt. If a Muslim commits an act of terrorism we can not hold ALL Muslims responsible. If one Chechnian shoots a fleeing child in the back that doesn’t mean ALL Chechnians are responsible, or would do the same. Obliterating the innocent Muslims and Chechnians and others will NOT improve the situation… it will only make it worse.
On the other hand, yes, those who are not guilty DO have an obligation to loudy condemn these outrageous actions. To expell such human vermin from the protection of any community, and group, and safe refuge.
Although I am not normally in favor of the death penalty, I am in favor of self-defense. Someone who sees nothing wrong in stripping people of any age, much less children, naked or nearly so, deprieving them of food and water, beating them when they are so desparetly thirsty they’ll drink out of a toilet, then shooting them in the back while they’re fleeing this maltreatment is too dangerous to roam free. The ratio of terrorist to victim is only growing. If they can not be permanently contained, isolated from the world, they must be destroyed in order to protect our lives, our families, our civilization, and perhaps even our speciies.
Simply obliterating a city where they are believed to be hiding is NOT the answer - aside from doing their work of the death of innocents for them, these people have too much history of melting away, leaving innocents to suffer in their stead while they move elsewhere to foment more suffering, more death, more destruction. No… we have to hunt them down, positively identify them, THEN kill them. It is the ONLY way to be sure. It is a matter of survival that we definitely get the guilty parties here and do not let our emotions - as justified as they may be - interfere with a true solution to this problem.
Zing!!!
And silenus is shown to be not only contemptible scum, but a hypocrite into the bargain.
As bDead Badger** has pointed out, a great majority of the Chechen people not only are completely uninvolved with the terrorist violence, but just want to live everyday, peaceful lives. Ever seen interviews with everyday Chechens on TV? Most of the ones that i’ve seen just wish that all the violence would stop.