Why does Aldebaran get so much stick?

The BBQ Pit
1

This is kind of a reverse pitting, if you like. Why the hell does Aldebaran come in for so much flaming on these boards? The most recent example was in the thread about the Russian school siege, where several people attacked him for not issuing some kind of formal “On behalf of all Muslims” apology/condemnation, just because the nutjobs that killed those kids claimed to be of the same religion. What the fuck?

I’m amazed, and impressed, that he sticks around. He generally provides pretty coherent opinions from a Muslim point of view, even if he sometimes comes across a little inflammatory (which, I believe, is due to a language barrier), and yet rather than welcome a different point of view, people rant and rave as if all the evils of the world can be pinned on him. And if he doesn’t instantly condemn any wrongdoing by any Muslim anywhere, he is at fault and hates America/the western world/little fluffy kittens.

Uh, that’s it.

2

It’s mostly just rep now. When he first came in, he was extremely belligerent, combative, refused to post cites for wild accusations and just generally came off as an agressive tin-foiler.

He’s much more mellow and coherent now. I even enjoy most of his posts. But yeah, it’s mostly just a reputation he gained in first few weeks here.

3

Hmm. All I can say is one time I asked some questions, and because I didn’t understand him or agree with him immediately, he essentially called me a bigot (I think the word “hatefest” was used in there somewhere). After I tried to stress I wasn’t being hateful, I was just gathering information and weighing different bits of story provided, he again accused me of being a bigot and then the thread pretty much died when another poster helped clarify some posts I simply asked be clarified.

Maybe this sort of behavior has something to do with it.

4

Having recently stumbled across this thread, I got the impression that he reacted in a very restrained manner considering the circumstances. My impression of him rose accordingly.

5

Neurotik has it right. He is still fairly spaced out and paranoid on occasion, but he’s a much more pleasant poster than when he first arrived.

6

I agree with the OP 101%

7

He’s improved a fair bit. As with anything dig back to his first or second pitting for the primary reasons he’s disliked. I would guess eventually it will fade but not so far.

8

I agree with most people in this thread as well. Aldebaran has a big mouth, though, and through his language difficulties(which on the whole have been improving), that is amplified quite a bit. I mostly think that A gets a bad rap because of his first few hundred posts and peoples’ inability to let past fuckups slide.

I even kinda like the guy.

Shalom,

Sam ;j

9

I personally like the guy. It is nice to get viewpoints from another angle.

I do have to say that he is most always met with coldness and rudness in treads here, even when he is most curt.

10

My problems with him:
-Do a search for his name and “USers”. He makes huge generalizations about Americans and then complains bitterly when others do the same to him. Granted that I don’t think anyone should be doing it, but he’s the last person who should complain about it.
-He completely sidesteps points that disprove his argument. He doesn’t admit when he’s wrong. In short he’s a bad faith debater.
-He won’t admit where he’s posting from to avoid having his country’s laws compared to whichever one he’s railing against. Not a huge sticking point, but more on the “bad faith debater” point.

11

He seems to have a major chip on his shoulder which seems to make him post in anger. I remember that thread (my first post, aaah) and I remember talking about how it would be prudent for Islamic bodies to issue condemnations (not apologies) vociferously primarily for the purpose of protecting Muslims from the growing anti-Islamic sentiment.
He went a tad mental, to say the least.

12

He does have a reputation for being anti-US/western world but that came about long before the school thread. Any Islamic or Muslim topic is pretty much guaranteed to have Aldebaran jump in feet first with both barrels blazing while at the same time setting up an army of strawmen. Witness his behavior in the US chopper fires on wedding party thread and his reaction to a simple link. It wouldn’t be so bad if he would shoot first and ask questions later but shooting first and not asking at all is not conducive to a debate. In fact, it tends to piss people off, as Loopydude noted.

What did you think of his final post in that thread?

13

This is a prime example of someone reading a post the way they want to read it. First of all if you want to be accurate at all, remove the apology from your OP. Noone in that thread asked him to apologize for shit.

The jist of what people were saying is that the lack of condemnation from Muslims, as a whole, for abysmal incidents undertaken on behalf of their religion is appalling. The rest of the world condemns these fuckheads, but with the exception of a few Muslim leaders, the rest of the Muslim world either seems to justify these acts or remain silent about them.

Aldeberan came into the thread asking why he should personally feel guilty about what happened there just because he is also a Muslim. Again, noone said that he should feel guilty about anything or apologize for anything. Here’s Liberal’s quote that apparantly got under Aldeberan’s skin: Loud and universal condemnation should ring forth from every mosque on earth. Why is that so damn appalling, bigotted and racist? Did he write, “Aldeberan, I expect a formal apology from you because your people are terrorist assholes?” No, he did not. But if I had just read your OP without having read the thread in question, I would definetely get that impression.

Why is expecting everyone on this planet, including Muslims, to condemn terrorist actions automatically racist and bigotted?

Here’s a link to the thread in question which you conveniently omitted.

14

Most posters who come in like he did flame out and get banned. Aldebaran, to give him credit, is the exception to the rule.

He is much better than he used to be, and thus gets correspondingly less stick. He still has the occasional spasm, but much less than formerly.

Good on yer, Alde.

Regards,
Shodan

15

What’s sad is I didn’t even disagree with him. I honestly didn’t know anything, and was just trying to ask some questions. His response to my line of inquiry was essentialy “The question was answered, but you were not interested, because you are a bigot. Why do you continue to question me, except to be hateful?” That is not at all an exaggeration. I was like “What in the fuck but this guy’s ass?” I wasn’t even sure at that point if he had said anything relevant to my questions, but he had made up his mind about me practically before the thread started. Each time I tried to apologize and clarify why I was asking questions at all, I got another disparaging smackdown, along the lines of “you are stupid and ignorant”. Well, yes, I am ignorant, and admitted as much; that’s why I’m asking questions! Sheesh!

16

Couple of points on the OP and some further ramblings.

1-While his [Alde’s] overall message vis-a-vis the behavior of the current US Administration remains pretty much the same – a message, that, overall, I agree with BTW – I think his delivery is much improved. Can’t and won’t speak for him of course, but it probably has to do with acquiring a better grasp of the English language along the way.

2-Like or not – and many won’t – there’s quite a large segment of the American populace, on both sides of the aisle, that frown upon criticism of the US almost to the exclusion of the basis of same. Doesn’t mean that other nationalities don’t do it, for I think most of us have a built-in defense mechanism when it comes to safeguarding our cultural heritage, it’s just that, quite frankly, many Americans can, and often do, come off as overly jingoistic and smug. Something to do with having been on top for so long I suppose, that it’s become a meme of sorts that the US can do no wrong. A sometimes implied, sometimes overtly expressed attitude, that nothing could possibly be better than the US of A.

Mind you, this meme is probably no different than what prevailed in empires past. In fact, I find it still manifests itself in some citizens of old colonial powers such as the British and Spaniards. I should know, being one of the latter myself, I grew up listening to my dad’s tales of Old Spanish Glory, the “days of the never setting Sun.” And if that wasn’t enough, I was raised in Franco’s Spain – probably the only other time that I saw as consistent and regular a display of national symbolisms (flags, anthems, etc.) as one sees in the US.

Is the US the “best” country in the world? Obviously, it depends on the criteria used to arrive at said conclusion. But whatever that is, one thing’s for sure, there’s a large measure of subjectivity in any such claims. I’ve personally reached a point, that within certain obvious limits, what matters more than place of residence is comfort with self. Now a days my jingoism is almost exclusively reserved to sporting competitions.

Other than that, “wherever you go, boom!, there you are.” A rather inescapable fact that eluded me for many a year.

Anyway, that’s my .02. Hopefully it is taken in the spirit with which it was offered, i.e., my own personal observations. Thus sparing me from reaching for my well-worn asbestos suit.

Damn hot as is!

17

Two words ( :slight_smile: ): My post is my cite.

I haven’t encountered him lately. Does he actually give cites now? If not, his bad rep has not been redeemed.

18

I remained more impressed by him than by Lynn Bodoni’s reluctance to apologise.

19

It’s not, but that’s not what was done in the thread we’re talking about. Demanding that Muslims must specifically condemn a particular crime before any of them had a chance to do so is only going to piss people off. I don’t see why it’s so hard to see that Lib’s post put a measure of implicit responsibility on Muslims everywhere, and demanded that they repudiate the actions. Certainly, any reasonable person condemns the actions, if not out loud; why, then, do we not extend the courtesy of assuming that decent Muslims do so also? At the very least we might give them a chance; Lib’s was the second post in that thread, which was the first thread on the siege. It’s a lot like those threads that start “Hey, why isn’t there a thread about X? You bastards must not care!” Many people may well care about X, but the response is invariably to tell the OP to cock off. People don’t like having things demanded of them, and react badly.

If you want Muslim condemnation of the siege, try Muslim spokespeople; here in the UK the MCB has roundly condemned the actions. An Imam in Italy is leading a fast in protest. Here’s another:

There’s no shortage of condemnation, so why do some feel the need to turn the screws on normal Muslims - people just like you and me?

20

If Aldebaran is “normal”, they’re in trouble. :slight_smile: