Oh shit it's a tipping thread

The BBQ Pit
21

Okeydoke, you read the article and I didn’t, so you would most likely know. I would have random-guessed that they wanted to split the booze bill separately from the food bill because some of them wanted to drink and some didn’t.

But yikes, lobmob, with your strategy you’d probably be paying as much or more in the extra tip than the original $120 charge in the first place!

I mean, consider that a place that serves $200 bottles of wine is probably going to be charging, at a pretty modest estimate, something like $100/plate for a full dinner exclusive of le booze. Say that’s a flat $800 for 8 people, just as a frinstance.

Now, if the restaurant’s auto-grat is 20%, you’re going to be paying $160 tip on the food bill alone, right up front. If you then gratefully toss in another 15% of the food bill as a thank-you for their lifting the auto-grat off the wine bill, you’re going to be paying another, um, $80 plus half is $40 or…$120! You’d be tipping them an extra $120 to express your appreciation for their having remitted a $120 tip!

I mean, if it would make you feel better to handle it that way, that’s fine, but I’d definitely do out the math beforehand and see where my generous impulse was taking me. If the food bill was $1000 for 8 people (and apparently there’s at least one fancy restaurant in Lincoln Park that will charge you $195/plate, exclusive of drinks, without batting an eye), you’d be shelling out $150 to thank them for not charging you $120.

22

Holy shit! Auto gratuity AND they round up? I would let the tip stand but they would have a fight on their hands if I didn’t get my $1.xx change. Round up my ass.

ETA: responding to PunditLisa…

23

[QUOTE=Kimstu]
Okeydoke, you read the article and I didn’t, so you would most likely know. I would have random-guessed that they wanted to split the booze bill separately from the food bill because some of them wanted to drink and some didn’t.

But yikes, lobmob, with your strategy you’d probably be paying as much or more in the extra tip than the original $120 charge in the first place!

I mean, consider that a place that serves $200 bottles of wine is probably going to be charging, at a pretty modest estimate, something like $100/plate for a full dinner exclusive of le booze. Say that’s a flat $800 for 8 people, just as a frinstance.

Now, if the restaurant’s auto-grat is 20%, you’re going to be paying $160 tip on the food bill alone, right up front. If you then gratefully toss in another 15% of the food bill as a thank-you for their lifting the auto-grat off the wine bill, you’re going to be paying another, um, $80 plus half is $40 or…$120! You’d be tipping them an extra $120 to express your appreciation for their having remitted a $120 tip!

I mean, if it would make you feel better to handle it that way, that’s fine, but I’d definitely do out the math beforehand and see where my generous impulse was taking me. If the food bill was $1000 for 8 people (and apparently there’s at least one fancy restaurant in Lincoln Park that will charge you $195/plate, exclusive of drinks, without batting an eye), you’d be shelling out $150 to thank them for not charging you $120.
[/QUOTE]

okay so maybe I rounded up way too much. I was just saying I would probably pay over the set auto grat (on a case by case basis) on the food bill ONLY to thank them for not making me pay the auto grat 120 on wine AS WELL AS THE 18-20% on the food.

I know its hard without the article but we can just turn this into a hypothetical I suppose. It never really said why they asked for a separate bill but I strongly believe it was implied that the table did not expect the auto grat to be applied to both bills. It was almost like they were there to eat the food like in the restaurant, but purchased the wine like they would from a liquor store. You don’t tip at a liquor store because they don’t serve you. Well I know it WASN’T a liquor store but they weren’t “served” wine here either. Not to mention a lot of the wine-centric places with an extensive wine cellar will kind of end up being treated as a restaurant/place to buy wine. I’ve been with my parents when they’ve bought multiple bottles of wine at dinner and took the one home we didn’t even open (we had intended to drink it and ended up not getting around to it) I don’t know how legal this is and its an insane thing to do because of the markup but you bet your monkey ass that bottle wasn’t tipped on.

I don’t think the table expected to just get the wine and not tip ANYTHING. They just thought 120 was gratuitous considering the waiter was certainly receiving a delightful auto grat from the food and complained thusly.

24

[QUOTE=askeptic]
Holy shit! Auto gratuity AND they round up? I would let the tip stand but they would have a fight on their hands if I didn’t get my $1.xx change. Round up my ass.

ETA: responding to PunditLisa…
[/QUOTE]

Add my ass too. If the bill had been $31.35 and she had given $40 would they still not had given change back? Fuck that crap. :dubious:

25

[QUOTE=ivylass]
I always tip on the total bill, drinks included.
[/QUOTE]

Me, too.

I have two tipping systems, though. Nine times out of 10, I’m eating at a restaurant that I frequent, and I usually know the serviceperson and the bartender fairly well. They always take care of me (comp’ing drinks and/or food items). Those guys get really good tips, not based on the bill total, but based on what the bill would have been. My server last night got a $30 tip on a $70 bill, but we probably would’ve paid well over $100 on the bill, before tip, if we had been billed for everything (meal + bottle of wine + drinks afterwards). It pays to have friends in the right places. :slight_smile:

If I’m in a new establishment that I may not return to, or that I may not become a regular, I tip based on level of service-- 20% +/-. Usually it’s just a few bucks difference anyway, so it’s no big deal really. I hate arguing with fellow diners about the tip, so I usually just put in what I think I should regardless of what others are doing.

26

Okay I’ve decided this may help with real numbers. I’ve made up a scenario that I think models this one closely.

You are in a party of 8 at a nice restaurant in Lincoln Park.

Bill A (food)
6 appetizers at $18 - $108
8 Salads at $12 - $96
8 entrees at $40 - 320
4 shared deserts at $10 - $40
8 coffees at $5 - 40

Total: $604
18% auto gratuity: $108
Total: $712

Bill B (fancy pants wine)

Total: $666
18% auto gratuity: $120

Grand Total:$1270
Grand Tip Total:228

Now what I would probably do is ask for the $120 charge to be taken off of Bill B and I would tip and additional 50 bucks or so on the food bill. No its not 18 % of the grand total but good lord the wine really fucks with the numbers.

27

[QUOTE=lobstermobster]
I don’t think they asked for two bills because they thought they could outsmart the math. I think they were hoping on good faith that they would not add the service charge of gratuity to something that was not being served.
[/QUOTE]

Seems like instead of hoping, they could’ve asked if that would be the case before the wine was brought out, especially if they were going to make a big deal out of it later.

28

[QUOTE=PunditLisa]

Later, another friend paid $40 cash for a $38.xx bill. Remember auto gratuity of 20% was included. The waitress returned and presented no change. My friend asked where her change was and the waitress said, “Sorry, we round up. It’s not really my fault because someone else does all that.”

[/QUOTE]
I would have insisted on my change back, and also the 20%.

It’s either a gratuity, or a service charge. If it’s a gratuity, I decide how large it should be. And if you confiscate more than 20%, it is not a service charge.

Regards,
Shodan

29

[QUOTE=Shodan]
I would have insisted on my change back, and also the 20%.

It’s either a gratuity, or a service charge. If it’s a gratuity, I decide how large it should be. And if you confiscate more than 20%, it is not a service charge.

[/QUOTE]

I absolutely agree with you. However, it was a celebration (Christmas and one of the ladies has been told she’s now cancer free (woo hoo!). Perhaps she should have gotten up and spoken to the waitress privately but no one wants to throw a wet blanket on a celebration.

Of course, given that I’m still bothered about it I should call the manager and complain.

30

I’ve not heard of removing the alcohol before adding up the tip. I’ve always just combined the two. As an aside, using Lobstermobster’s numbers, even with the tip on the booze, dinner for 8 at a swanky Lincoln Park restaurant is still only $160 per person, which is about what I would expect if indeed it was swanky.

As for the rounding up, uh yeah, not going to happen.

31

What do you guys give on a happy hour beer? 10 cents?

As for the OP, I have always maintained the theory that if I can’t afford the tip, I will not eat at the restaurant.

32

[QUOTE=Spit]
What do you guys give on a happy hour beer? 10 cents?

As for the OP, I have always maintained the theory that if I can’t afford the tip, I will not eat at the restaurant.
[/QUOTE]

I tip a dollar a beer no matter what the price. I would just have a hard time swallowing 120 dollars tip in this case.

33

There are two kinds of people: generous tippers, and people who have a whole set of rules excusing them from being a generous tipper. Guess which type is more fun to eat out with?

34

[QUOTE=lobstermobster]
120 dollars tip for wine service is absurd.
[/QUOTE]

I’m having trouble getting this. I occasionally (VERY occasionally) get a $20 scotch at a local establishment. I would not dream of tipping less than four dollars, and five or six would be more likely. If you can’t afford to tip, you need to find a liquor store. Now if I’m getting a dollar PBR, the tip is just a dollar.

35

[QUOTE=Spit]
What do you guys give on a happy hour beer? 10 cents?
[/QUOTE]

I tip a dollar for beer, two for mixed drinks.

I also tip 20% on average at restaurants (including drinks, as I never have $200 bottles of wine).

My objection is to automatic gratuities, particularly when said gratuity goes into the pocket of a waitress who was so avoidant of our table that I had to practically physically drag her over to give out menus/take drink (or meal, or dessert) orders.

36

[QUOTE=saoirse]
I’m having trouble getting this. I occasionally (VERY occasionally) get a $20 scotch at a local establishment. I would not dream of tipping less than four dollars, and five or six would be more likely. If you can’t afford to tip, you need to find a liquor store. Now if I’m getting a dollar PBR, the tip is just a dollar.
[/QUOTE]

I know it’s weird. I’m the last person to ever be considered cheap. I spend money in the most irresponsible way. Something about this one particular case. 120 tip for service I didn’t receive is just…I don’t know

37

NOt that this will explain the situation, but I think you can read the story at NOt a review

Some operative points made in the article are

NOTE: ONE of the guest ordered $600 worth of wine/Champagne!! It wasn’t the whole party who did this. HE asked to pay for this on a separate bill…

In the opinion of the letter writer…

So, it was the MANAGER who settled the dispute, not the waitstaff.

While I think the manager might have made a bit of a concession in this one case. MY GUESS is that the manager didn’t bring up calling the police until the customers started acting like Dicks.

If you have to ask how much it is, you can’t afford it.

38

[QUOTE=lissener]
There are two kinds of people: generous tippers, and people who have a whole set of rules excusing them from being a generous tipper. Guess which type is more fun to eat out with?
[/QUOTE]

The latter. Annoying, but creative.

39

[QUOTE=Shodan]

It’s either a gratuity, or a service charge. If it’s a gratuity, I decide how large it should be.
[/QUOTE]
Amen, brother. I always say “if you don’t have enough to tip, you don’t have enough to go out” but that tip is an expression of my appreciation of the service.

I am generous if the service was good. I want to be able to express my displeasure in the only way it will be understood if it was not. That almost never happens, but I want it as an option.

40

Waitstaff person checking in here:

First off, the idea of not tipping on booze is an antiquated notion from a bygone era when waitstaff was paid closer to minimum wage and were less Dependant on tips as we are now. Furthermore, back “in the day” people didn’t order as much booze when they went out ot eat as they do now. If we wanted to drink, you went to a bar, if you wanted to eat, you went to a restaurant. A LOT more people are ordering beers, mixed drinks, and wine at casual dining places, whereas before mostly just the more upscale places had large amounts of alcohol.

And at first glace, it seemed to me the party purposefully asked for a separate wine bill because they knew that it would be expensive and didn’t want to pay the autograt on it. They then asked for no table service to “justify” not paying it (though the waiter still brought it to the table and opened it…certainly not the same as full service, where he would pour a small amount for them to smell and taste, then pour all the glasses, but he did do something.) But then when I read what samclem wrote about the one person ordering them, it seems more reasonable, since the rest of them might not have known exactly what he was ordering and weren’t sure of the price.

At any rate, the manager/waitstaff were dicks for insisting they pay lest they call the cops.

(And I hate autogratuity too, and I’m glad the place I work for doesn’t do it.)