What do you mean by “criminally low” wages? Wages are merely the price of labor, and are (should be) determined by supply and demand, same as anything else. Do you ever think that the price of bread or lettuce is “criminally high”?
I don’t know but I thank God every day that he hasn’t since he really has no place to go to if this happens. See, he was brought to this country at the age of twelve by an American to work after the orphanage that was supposed to care for him put him out to work in a place where he was abused. When the guy told him and his brother that he’d make tons of money in the U.S. he jumped at the chance. Tons of money equaled room and board in a tin can of a trailer with twelve other workers under the age of eighteen.
He worked for this man until he was eighteen, then found better paying work picking tomatoes in Florida. After a few years of making around a hundred dollars a week he decided to “become legal” after an American man came to the camp and invited him to a class that, for 300 dollars, could help him gain citizenship.
Sure it was ignorant to think his new social security card and matricula were real. But it seemed to work for him so he didn’t think a thing about it. (With absolutely no education it’s not that surprising.) When we met we’d both been working for the same construction company for months. He spoke almost perfect English and had Americanized his name. I had no reason to doubt him when he said he was legal.
I didn’t know until we went to get a marriage license almost a year later.
Why don’t I report him now? Because the government knows where he is. He has a tax ID. He’s reported several crimes (against him) to the police. He applied for a green card when the baby was born but he needs more documentation to push the paperwork through. But they know where he is if they want to come and get him.
Sorry to hijack this thread but I just feel the need to share his story, ya know? We’ve been together over two years and I’ve never spoken up before because honestly I’m afraid of being looked down upon here. Earlier this week I read that someone considers women who date illegals to be of a lower class. Maybe that’s what I am, a lower class person, just like him. But damn, the guy is a good person, a good father. He works hard and pays his bills, including the hospital bill balance from his daughter’s birth. There are plenty others like him, I’m sure. And plenty citizens that don’t pay their bills too. Not using this as an excuse for him, because considering most of his life he’s been here I don’t really think he needs an excuse for remaining in this country.
But that’s not what this thread is about. What I don’t get is why those babies being citizens is a bad thing. Issuing them social security cards at birth may entitle them to some things, but being legal citizens when they get older will help them to become contributing members of our country, right? Taking this away from them seems like it would do more harm than good in the long run.
Nope. But after 15 years picking up after the folks I’m talking about, my experience beats any statistic you can give me
**Indeed, many poor people work, and concurrently receive gov’t assistance, to which I do not at all object (as if it mattered if I did) IF they need it. In my daily travels however, I see many that are taking advantage of something that they do not now, and likely will never ever contribute to. What’s more, illegal immigrats will never have the opportunity, because they haven’t a mechanism for paying taxes INTO the system.
The one thing that we forget here, as we rail against the fatcat CEO, is that the Gov’t doesn’t directly PAY the CEO, the market does. If the market will bear a 25 million dollar salary, then there ya go. Same goes for the working poor, if $6-$8 dollars and hour (which is sadly, as you say, generous) is all the market will bear,
then that’s it.**
I agree with your statement at heart, but this society is a capitalist one, not a socialist one. If there was social justice at all, cops and firemen would be making $1M a year, and a pro baseball player would be pulling down the $45,000. Just ain’t the case. I don’t have hard numbers, but it seems to me that an entrepreneur that opens and runs a successful business, and employs hundreds, if not thousands of people during the life of the business, has contributed exponentially more than the people he has hired.
**While that’s true, it’s the glut of really cheap goods that Americans hunger for that will be our ultimate downfall. In 10 years, China will be tapping the US on the shoulder to hand over the crown as the lone world superpower.
Health care is THE hot button issue in the US, as far as I’m concerned. We do a LOT for the people who need it done, but there is much left to do. That said though, there is no promise of health care. Sadly, the problem with capitalism is the “I got mine, and screw you” mentality.
IMO, at the root of the problem (and I’m going to slightly contradict here) is the large companies, whose motivation is profit. If you can sell your drugs to Canada for 1/3rd of what you sell them to the US for, that tells me that you can STILL profit by selling them at that 1/3rd price. Again though, it’s what the market will bear, but just, well barely.
Companies rely on cheap labor, because, profit not withstanding, we rely on cheap goods and services, because people are so heavily taxed, because, in part, of services that people who taxed the system without contributing to it in the first place. **
Firstly, what diatribe are you speaking of? My one sentence? You have a strange idea of what a diatribe is.
Secondly, bj’s point is not correct. Poor people do not take more than CEOs. The percentage of poor people who ‘take from the jar’ and CEOs who ‘take from the jar’ is about the same. Only when CEOs do it, the damage they do is far, far greater than when a poor person does it.
In fact, this attitude of how much the CEOs give and give and the poor people just take and take is pure bullshit. Poor people pay taxes just like CEOs. They labor long and hard and for little pay just so you can pay less than a dollar for a head of lettuce. They clean your toilets, serve you food at restaurants, sew your clothes, build your houses and watch your children.
Do you know who the average poor person is? I bet you think you do, but you don’t. Here’s a look:
Many of the findings in Working Hard, Falling Short will come as a surprise to those who think they know what poverty looks like based on stereotypes, not facts. For example, we all know that unemployment can lead to poverty, but hard work is supposed to protect families from economic distress. But the sad truth is that more than 27 percent of working families in this country are low-income. More than seven out of ten low-income families work. In 2002, over 9.2 million families worked full-time but had difficulty making ends meet and more than 20 million children lived in low-income families. Not only do these families work, they work hard. Their average annual work effort is 2,500 hours, which translates to 1.2 full-time jobs
Sorry to jump tracks in this thread, but I though I should point out:
Sure there is. Every time an illegal alien buys something, the state and county charge them a small (3-9%) levy. Everyone else pays it, too. For most people in the bottom quintile, this is the largest tax they pay.
Isn’t there something that can be done? Here in California (and most states??) there are counselors and advisors whose purpose is to help people become citizens. I take it from your post that he’s been here a long time. Surely he can fill out the needed forms, take whatever citizenship training is needed, and knows enough people to get a sponsor if needed. There has to be a legal way to stay, and make it both permanent and official. There have also been various “amnesty” programs for people to do this.
An excuse to remain in this country? Huh? He’s a liar, a cheat, and a criminal. What about all those thousands of people who legally apply for immigration, and get denied?
It’s great that he is a good father to your child, but your attitude about the whole thing seems awfully selfish. IMHO, YMMV.
Then it’s a good thing I never said it! Nor did buttonjockey.
Um, what part of rushgeekgirl’s post didn’t you get? He has a green card, they are applying for citizenship, and from the way the story reads, he was pretty much suckered in at a very young age. He was the one lied to and cheated, and he’s now trying to rectify that situation. Get control of that knee.
“Forget it, Jake. It’s Updike.”
[QUOTE=John Mace]
[QUOTE=Biggirl]
In fact, this attitude of how much the CEOs give and give and the poor people just take and take is pure bullshit.
[/QUOTE
Then it’s a good thing I never said it! Nor did buttonjockey.[/QUOTE]
You both certainly implied it. Especially with this
I did ask a direct question. Care to answer it?
Silly me, I honestly thought he just misread the post…
Christ, you’re a scumbag. Fuck off.
**Yes, the CEO “demands” better roads, but those that drive the roads pay for the upgrades, and the cost is passed on to you the consumer, not as a mandatory payment from all of society.
Yes, the CEO “demands” cheap oil so his semis can take goods to market for less, but again, the government doesn’t control the price of oil directly, the market does. The owners of the semis help pay for the roads.
Yes, the CEO (actually, in this case, it would be the corporation board of directors, but why nitpick) moves his manufacturing overseas, which makes his goods cheaper. Aside from being good for “business” it has a deleterious effect on the country. I think American companies that ship their manufacturing overseas ought to be tarriffed the difference to send their goods back here.
Yes, the CEO “demands” that our ports accept his products quickly, but again, it’s not like there’s a union dockworker that’s going hungry. If you’ll recall the 2002 Long Beach dockworkers strike. It was the entire economy that suffered, to the tune of about 2 billion a day. In that case, it was the workers, not the CEO that had the power.
Such wild imaginings. Offshore banking isn’t as simple as changing an address card. There are more regulations regarding US offshore holdings than you can shake a cuban cigar at. **
Thank goodness they can now “offshore” all those jobs to cover the costs of offshore banking…
buttonjockey308, is the incessant bolding really necessary?
Nope. For starters, note that there is absolutely no reference to “taking” in that quote.
Do I know whot the poor are? Yes, I do. FWIW, I have said nothing negative about poor people in this thread. I doubt I’ve said much negative about poor people in ANY thread on this board. I don’t think they just “take and take”, and I neither said it nor implied it. *Some *may, but in my experience most people do want to be productive and make a better life for themselves and their families.
Nitpick: he’s applied for a green card (and I hope he gets it). I’m bringing this up now so Updike (who is, as DtC points out, a scumbag [IMHO, YMMV] 
) can’t come roaring in here and claim to have caught you out in something, you criminal-defending, lookin’-the-other-way America hater.
Ugh. That was some awful coding. Try this:
And, btw, I think that last statement applies to illegal immigrants as well. Sure some come here to commit crimes, but the vast majority of them end up working their butts off, sending money home, and just lying low to avoid the law.
Is updike bright enough to have caught that inconsistency?