I’m a married parent of 2 kids in college. We live a very comfortable life. My eldest daughter recently had a wonderful “opportunity” to study abroad for a month, to the tune of $11,000. We nearly fell off our chair when we heard the price. That was waaay over what we were willing to spend over and above tuition, even though we can technically afford it. We declined that fantastic opportunity.
We feel that it is our obligation to feed, house, and pay for our kids’ college education, provided they do their part by getting good grades. These “study abroad” opportunities are not essential to getting a degree. I feel absolutely no obligation to fund them. If you want to pony up for all or part of it, so be it. But to pressure your ex-wife, who you already know is financially strapped, into paying half of what amounts to a really cool month long vacation for your adult son, is ridiculous.
If your son wants to go, then have HIM take the initiative into funding it. It’s HIS trip, and it’ll be a great time for him to learn that frivolities come with a price. He can drain his savings, he can work for it at home or through a traditional job or five, he can get an interest free loan from you, he can ask his grandparents for money…or he can cajole his father into ponying up for it.
But leave the ex-wife out of it. It isn’t her responsibility.
Where have I said I am forcing him to ask his mother?
I actually think there is some chance that she may agree to some amount. She’s not being asked to write a check today. She’s going to have a whole year to come up with the dough. She get’s checks from me twice a month. All she needs to do is set aside $83 out of each of those future checks. That’s not so hard. At least it shouldn’t be.
It sounds like everyone agrees that the mother should be responsible for half the expenses. In that case, what’s the harm in asking her what she can afford to pay? Maybe she’ll shock everyone and actually contribute a couple grand, or a grand, or $500.
Would people’s attitudes be different if the OP directly asked his ex what she would pay for the trip? If so, I don’t get that, either. The kid is 17. If he needs money, he ought to be able to ask for it.
You need to get over the notion that you can dictate what she does with her child support money. Assume that the 30% of her budget that you personally contribute is going 100% towards raising your child – food, clothes, shelter, transportation. What she does with the other 70% of her income is, frankly, none of your business.
Once again, a vacation is a frivolity and is not necessary for his upbringing. You can no more force her to fund half of it than she can force you to pony up for half of his iTunes purchases.
Believe it or not, discussions on where to draw the line on frivolities is not limited to divorcees. All parents negotiate such things. For instance, we are due for cell phone upgrades, and we informed the kids that they need to start paying their own cell phone bills. 16+ is when they should be transitioning away from the parental subsidy.
[QUOTE=Omar Little]
He can come up with the other half whereever he wants to. But he doesn’t want to foot the entire other half himself, nor do I expect him to. He plans on putting forth a $1,000 on his own, which will leave about $2 grand short. .
[/QUOTE]
I’m sorry, I really don’t understand why paying for this trip is something his mother has to be involved in, it sounds like he can handle paying half on his own. Why is he choosing not to? If he is not invested enough in this opportunity to spend his own money on it - why should you or his mother foot the bill for him?
My 15 year old wants to go on a similar trip next summer. It will “only” cost about $3,000. Her dad pays me child support every month and we live a comfortable life where her needs are met. I am not going to pay for half of the trip, I have other responsibilities that supercede this opportunity. My daughter has until October of this year to come up with the deposit, and should now be working on a way to pay for the rest of the trip. If her father decides to pay for any portion of the trip it is entirely between him and her.
Do you understand that even if your ex was extremely financially responsible that she would still have the right to say no to paying for any part of this trip?
So it’s okay for him to ask me because I’m rich and not okay to ask her because she’s a shitbag? I don’t get the logic some of you people use.
And as far as my knowing she has the right to say no, of course I do. But that’s not a reason for him not to ask.
And PunditLisa you are classicly reading things that aren’t there. I have no notion that I can control what my ex does with the child support I pay, but I definitely can have an opinion on what is fair and what is not. What you did fail to read is that I know for a fact that she doesn’t spend even half of what I give her on my son’s support.
This is a great idea! My daughter and a friend are great cartoonists and this would be a great way for her to earn money for her trip. She’s had so many requests for artwork that she does for free, already.
Ask her yourself. Why is your financial negotiation with your ex-wife suddenly your child’s responsibility?
This may be sensitive for me because I’m the child of divorced parents who used to pull this bullshit with me all the time. My dad would carefully explain how he sent my mom $X in support money per month and how I should ask her for the money for X thing that I needed, and my mom in reverse would be doing the same thing, explaining how my dad’s child support payments had never been increased since 1979 and if I wanted X thing I should ask him, and the whole time I’m thinking, why am I suddenly the one who is being expected to make grown adults be financially responsible? It’s not my money, I’m not in charge of the money, I can’t do anything about the fact that my mom spends money on stuff my dad doesn’t approve of and my dad spends less on me than my mom would like, and I came out of it feeling like I was just a pawn in this stupid endless war they insisted on having with each other and really feeling like both of them were pretty much douchebags on this topic.
Maybe that’s what you would like for your kid. I don’t know. But I do think you’re behaving inappropriately.
Here’s a question, Omar: what do you *want *him to learn, by suggesting *he *ask his mom to chip in for the trip? And please be more specific than “having reasonable expectations of how adults behave”.
You have a justifiable grievance against your ex, when it comes to support. You’re frustrated, and we get that. The situation sucks. All the same, the level of *disdain * that comes through in your posts here is pronounced…and can you see how it’s worrisome that that might bleed through when you talk to your son?
This is his mother we’re talking about, after all, and (in your own words here) he’s worried about their family’s financial situation, and doesn’t want to ask for money for that reason. He’s already aware of his mom’s behavior, from having been asked to chip in to household expenses (and I assume you’ve worked on teaching him the proper way to budget and manage money?) But he, unlike you, is dealing with the situation that is instead of dwelling over and over on the situation that should be.
To my mind, if your son has said that he isn’t comfortable asking his mother for money for a frivolous trip, that’s a damn responsible thing for him to have said on its own, and should be respected.
ETA: what Ms. Whatsit said, completely. Don’t lower yourself in your kid’s eyes by roping him into your fights.
Stop for a second and listen to yourself, you sound like a petulant child. It is obvious that you are very concerned and very well aware (to the point of helicoptering) how she spends the CS you contribute. The “logic” we use is that you have painted a vivid picture of her as a complete financial incompetent with little to no savings.
The “logic” we point out is that if your vignette is accurate asking her for 50% of the trip money is an absurd waste of time, it’s only function would be to shame her publicly for being a “shitbag”.
The only useful function of this little tarantella you seem determined to dance with her is to satisfy yourself that she is a useless shitbag and you are the good guy. This is an exercise in pointless stupidity if the picture painted in your OP is accurate.
That you are well off and she is not is not the moral or ethical pivot point here. The point is that she (assuming you are telling the truth in your OP about this scenario) has NO money to do what you are demanding. People criticizing you in this thread are scratching their heads at exactly what the hell you think you are accomplishing with this irrational and obnoxious behavior.
We have spelled this out repeatedly and you really don’t seem to be comprehending our point here. What you are legally or contractually entitled to in the CS agreement and its related understandings are of no import if she has no resources. The trip lives or dies with the arrangement you make with you son. Involving your ex is a useless wank fest that will serve to do nothing, but torment and embarrass those involved. Do you not understand this?
I’d say that since technically you are paying 100% of the support for your son I would go ahead and put down the deposit.
Then tell son you are paying for the whole trip but you would like him to make monthly payments, of whatever is reasonable for his situation, to pay you back eventually for half of the trip. Even if it is going to be just $60 a month over the next four years. It’ll teach him how to save and plan for making long term monthly payments like for rent and bills.
You parrots have the reading comprehension of four year olds. More interested in jumping to conclusions, probably based upon your own life experiences, instead of asking questions.
As I have said upthread, is that she does have the money to help with this request of my son. I fail to see anyone demanding anything other than me for you to get a clue. If you need me to piece together the source of her funds for this purpose because you’re too lazy to go back to my post and read them without interjecting your psychobabble into them, just ask.
Everytime I needed extra from my dad (orthodontist, a bill, lunch, shoes, band/choir trip), he’d whine, “What about that money I give your mom?” Now, I had a job and all, but I couldn’t cover everything. My mom couldn’t, either. It sounds like the OP has less money than my dad does but pays a whole lot more. My dad was a jerk when it came to child support.
Still, really? What’s the point? Why get the kid involved? He already knows his mom is poor. And if the OP is “rich” like he says, WHO GIVES A SHIT?! It’s your kid.
Note to self: When my kid asks for $6k so he can have an experience of a lifetime, pay for it happily.
Omar Little, we understand that you pay child support to your ex-wife for your son. You want your son to ask her to set aside part of this child support to pay for the trip.
What people are trying to get you to see is that this is very difficult for your son. That child support check is most likely spent before it arrives - rent, utilities, vehicle payment, etc. - and your son know this; he lives with it. You said yourself your ex-wife borrows money from your son. To the people reading this thread, it sounds like you are asking your son to make this request for the sheer pleasure of having her turn him down. You know she can’t afford to fund the trip. Your son knows she can’t afford to fund the trip. If your son does ask her for the money, she is going to know he knows she doesn’t have the money - after all, isn’t he the one giving her money? I think it’s just unnecessarily embarassing to put him into the position of having to ask her.
In a perfect world she would say “sure son, I’ll set aside X amount of every child support check”. What will end up happening is that she will discover something that has to be paid every month, and he’ll be at the deadline for payment short of the necessary money. I don’t think it’s a good idea for him to count on her for anything.
And as for your “if I was a woman” comment, I highly offended an acquaintance this past spring because she was ranting about the father of her child moving back into the area and getting his visitation with the little girl. She was saying “if he wants to do that he can pay half her cheerleading fees and half of…” I cut her off, saying that was what he paid child support for. I told her she should be glad her child’s daughter wanted to spend time with her. She’s still not speaking to me.
Male or female, right is right. Don’t embarass your son.
I totally get that. She has the money because you give it to her. Fine. But quite frankly it doesn’t really matter if she’s stinking rich, right?
All three of you know that she’s probably not going to say yes even if she is using hundred-dollar bills as a mattress, and even if she does say yes your son is going to feel guilty about what he perceives as taking things from his mom, and probably she’ll hit him up for money if she does say yes (or even if she says no), thus negating the request anyway.
Again, this is the case no matter if she’s got the money or not. I mean, maybe she’s got loads of money in a Swiss bank account somewhere and is a despicable human being who is hoarding it all herself and won’t give any to your son for his trip. It’s not really relevant. What’s relevant is your son’s perception that his mom and dad are fighting about things they think are unfair while using him and his guilt-o-meter as a pawn.
[QUOTE=Omar Little;]
But to suggest that I should coddle him and spare him his dissapointment of his mom’s behavior, that’s on her.
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Not a divorced kid or divorced parent, so I suppose my opinion is worth squat really, but I was always under the impression (partially gleaned from Doper threads) that in fact the divorced parent was under some responsibility to try to spare the kid from the other parent’s foibles. Because why should the kid suffer just because one made a bad choice in mate?
IMO this is a want, not a need, and so it doesn’t fall under the 50/50 umbrella at all.
Also, given that it is a want, not a need, I think it is perfectly reasonable for a 17 year old to take responsibility themselves, ask whoever might possibly contribute (mother, father, grandparents, godparents, whoever), and figure out how to come up with the rest.
It is perfectly reasonable for you to give what you are comfortable giving, and for your ex to do the same.
But it being a want, not a need, also means that the issue of child support, and of your ex’s financial responsibility or lack thereof, has nothing to do with this issue.