what are you lot, the fucking grammar police?
so my rant turns into an attack on my not using capital letters in posts? fuck you. im upto 416 posts and never use capitals. what the fucks so hard to read about my posts?
and theres nothing like sticking to the original OP is there?
Happy Now Grammatical Pedants?
meh.
No, what people are saying is that no employer is going to take someone seriously who cannot communicate with clients. It’s not just a spelling error here and a forgotten capital letter there. We all make errors from time to time. It’s the fact that your writing is quite incoherant.
These aren’t even sentences. Besides that, of course these people have no concept of design, they aren’t designers. But, if you want to be a designer, you have to learn to translate the “meaningless buzzwords” into what they actually are looking for. If you can’t do that, you will not be successful.
Here is another example. If you are going to number the ideas, it might be a good idea to have a number 2. Otherwise, why number them at all.
Look, you seem like a nice enough guy and you may be very good at what you do. As an employer though, when I look to hire someone who will be communicating with people on behalf of my company, they better have excellent communication skills. This isn’t about being grammar police. It is about people trying to convey to you that maybe you are being overlooked for reasons other than your design skills. Just a thought.
its not the fact im being overlooked, its being ignored that fucks me off. there is nothing wrong with my person to person skills. its more a case of rant rushed off before the end of the day without a point 2. im sorry i dont make sense. im sorry i dont come upto all your high standards.
woe is me.
Well, paul, I was going to write a post emphasizing that a written request to take on the design work is much better then waiting for your boss to come the spontaneous conclusion on his own…
But on second thought, you seem content to be a drooling idgit with the communication skills of a Chinese VCR manual. Revel in it. Enjoy it. You’re going nowhere.
High standards? All we’re asking is that you write coherently. You’re too lazy to type a fucking apostrophe — how can you be trusted to put all the parts in a watch?
It seems to me that being overlooked and being ignored are the same thing. And it isn’t that you aren’t understood either or that you can’t live up to the high standards here. I think you are missing the point.
If this is your attitude at work, how on earth could you possibly expect to be taken seriously. Couple that with your poor grammar skills and it really is no wonder that you aren’t being considered for any kind of increase in responsibility. People don’t want to employ those who think they know it all, yet can’t effectively communicate. They want those who are going to take direction well and work well with others. In other words, they want someone who isn’t going to be a headache for them. You could be the best designer in the land for all I know, but if you don’t learn to play the game better, others that have are going to shoot right on past you. Seems like that is what is happening here.
I’m an Industrial Designer - I 've never designed a watch. But I do have an idea - you could work up a few concepts on your own time, and then present them, quickly, to the powers that be. If you can’t get before the powers that be, email the concepts to them, in a small enough format that they need to see bigger images.
That should at least get the point across that you are capable of doing the work. If they like what they see, they’ll come back to you looking for more.
Why are we assuming that communication on the Net = communication in real life?
Paulbeserker, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. But if your boss(es) have even privately-held inklings that you feel the way you’ve expressed here, then musicguy is correct about your immediate future with that company.
What “face” (no pun intended) do you present to the directors and licensing reps? How are you perceived? Not easy to answer, I know – but think on it a bit.
…
To the room:
Use of capitalization and punctuation may be a pet peeve of many, but I don’t see it as at all relevant in this matter. Writing to a message board on one hand, and doing design work on the other, use completely different mental modes to my own experience. Just MHO.
Bordelond
In my opinion, it’s relevant for the reason I said. There is a difference between the interesting scribblings of a creative mind and the juvenile ramblings of a spoiled brat: one is the product of hard work; the other of laziness. And it is not difficult to discern which is which. Knowing the rules and bending them creatively can be poetical and delightful. But that isn’t what is happening here.
No one is saying that he needs to write like William Shakespeare. But there seems to be a pattern here, one of failure to put forth effort, whether in communicating with his employer or in composing simple sentences.
I wager that a man who puts forth that kind of effort in such critical matters puts forth very little in matters less critical — like designing watches, for instance. I rather imagine him producing a watch that pinches the wrist, won’t keep the time, and pisses off everyone who wears it.
Lib:
We agree to disagree. I see where you’re coming from, but I think you’re drawing a conclusion from too little information. My experience is that online personnas usually differ considerably from real-life personnas. Others MMV, of course.
So do you design stuff, or not?
thanks bordelond. you assume too much libertarian. how much effort would you put in to a job in your own personal time when you feel you’re underpaid and not appreciated? if they bothered to ask, as i would expect anybody with half a brain to when they have people in a department called design in the office right across the corridor from theirs, then perhaps i may put the effort in. the OP rant was about being underappreciated and that my bosses are arseholes. they complain about the amount of money that my dept spends on equipment etc, then go to an outside design firm and spend £20000 on a brochure we could have produced inhouse for half the cost.
i didnt expect this to turn into a go at me for punctuation and grammar and unfounded assumptions of what im like as a person. Lib, you sound like the people i work for. dont assume what im like. i type this at work, i dont have time to put fucking unnecessary apostrophes in everywhere. its perfectly readable to me, so shut the fuck up about it.
but as a crowd pleaser ‘’’’" " ’ ’ " / /? ! @ : ; :: : | {} %^ ** • +!=!=º @€ !!±§ ~~ , , …
happy now? i dont expect sympathy. i merely use the pit as an outlet for my frustration. and i am leaving this job.
:mad:
Hey man, don’t let them knock your writing style. I’ve been reading your lines out loud in my best Henry Rollins voice.
Rock on, watch dude, rock on.
Zero. How about you?
Agreed. And if you think this is my only problem with Paul, you need to go back and re-read. I’m willing to wade through some typos and spelling errors. Hell, we all make them. But completely lazy writing and awkward phrases that I wouldn’t understand any better were they spoken aloud are something quite different.
But you want to know what pisses me off the most? I suggested to paul that it is worth his time to formally request a chance at doing the work. What does paul think?
An irrelevant shot at someone’s else’s wage, and multiple hints that he feels entitled to the work but doesn’t have the wherewithal to ask for it.
Frankly, unless he is his alter-ego here, it does make me wonder about his employer as well. Why would a company continue to put up with someone who has an incredibly lousy attitude, believes he is owed something for nothing, and is almost illiterate?
but why should i have to ask for it? thats apparently what we’re here for, according to my ‘job’ description. wouldnt you think the company directors would see if anybody in house could do the job before farming it out to freelancers at greater cost? i fail to see how im not being clear here. my job is a skilled one, rather than anyone can come in and be taught it in a matter of days such as in our purchasing or orders depts.
although i will concede that i tend to write (on this message board) how i talk. which may lead to confusion between americans.
and obviously, i talk to people at work like i talk here. even though i may despise most of them, i can keep a civil enough tongue in my head to keep a job. thanks.
Not at all. I spoke only to the issue of proper punctuation and capitalization, criticism of which I consider to be a tangent to criticism of more severe flaws. I, too, can see the attitude problems paulbezerker is presenting to this board (but hopefully not to his employer).
…
Paulbezerker, you’ve undercut your defenses pretty badly in your latest two posts. To wit:
Now, from my own experience, it is very difficult to conceal disdain from people you see every day. As musicguy mentioned, you may be considered "a headache " to others. On the basis of personality alone, is the price of dealing with you too great?
Waverly and keithnmick have given you good advice in the event that you’d like to improve your lot at your current job. Would you feel comfortable approaching your superiors? Is it tense and difficult when you speak to them? If you cannot deal with your superiors for whatever reason, then you will have a hard time selling your talents.
You’re trying to fight an ingrained part of the corporate culture – that their “Design” department is not really up to snuff for original design. To change corporate culture, your going to have to swallow a lot of vitriol.
It’s hard for me to think that there is no reasoning at all behind why your superiors go to freelancers for original design. If you are in decent stead with at least one superior, perhaps you can ask about it. The company using your department for original design work would save money, so there’s something else going on that’s preventing your company from doing so – and it’s almost certainly not stupidity or pig-headedness.
There’s very likely a concrete business reason behind the practice of using freelancers. So why shouldn’t you “have to ask for it”? The company presumable has been around longer than you’ve been woring there. They have a way of doing things that has been (presumably) profitable. If you’ve got a better mousetrap to sell, you’ll have to find a better pitch than slamming that mousetrap on your superiors’ fingers.
Or alternatively, you can just up and leave.
Yeesh. Apparently, some of our posters won’t even let someone get away with venting in the Pit anymore.
You have my sympathies, Paul. The tendency to judge others displayed by some here (based on a few MB posts, no less) is quite telling.
beSerker.
i am upping and leaving, as soon as i can. i dont get along with everybody here. i speak my mind, which a lot of people seem to see as having a bad attitude, and i have been pulled up by top brass before about it. i get along with people in as much as it makes my life easier.
but i feel very strongly about being overlooked in actually doing some design for the company. i have incredible confidence in my own skills as a designer, and yet all i get is ‘oh. we’ll look into it’ and they walk off to do something obviously more important. this blatantly IS the wrong job for me.
as i said before, the freelancer they use, who is on a retainer, creates more work for us cleaning up his mess, and yet his retainer means he still gets regular work, despite our complaints.
im going to go get a job where i dont have to use capital letters or punctuation. or talk to anybody else at all. satisfied now?