Badtz, you are one evil, evil, funny motherfucker.
I agree completely, and the sooner we send them to God the better.
Right then, I wasn’t paying attention to the father, but everything I said about the mother goes just as strongly for him.
As for the apropriate treatment, and the cries for vengeful torture/imprisonment: Cruelty doesn’t cure cruelty, it re-enforces it. When we’re cruel, or even express cruel thoughts, we make society a nastier, more calous, more cruel place. I’m just as guilty as anyone else on this. By succumbing to our more base motives, we’re helping drag our society into the mud. Now, if the parents are unrecoverable, if they’re an immediate menace to society, then by all means, put them down. If they need time and attention to fix (if possible) what’s wrong with them, then lock them away and get to work on finding and fixing their major malfunction.
Should they be punished? Yup. Should it be a debilitating, cruel punishment? Nope. Punishment is a tool for education, a means for getting someone’s attention and pointing out that certain behavior is unacceptable. So: Absolutely, punishment is appropriate. Prolonged incarceration isn’t punishment, it’s torture, or it’s an admission by society that we’ve no intention of saving this person. ‘Rehabilitation’ by prolonged incarceration is a myth; it’s an admission that we don’t know enough, or care enough, to deal with an individual effectively. Life without parole, for example, is nothing more than a cowardly death sentence, preceeded by years of low-grade torture.
Putting molesters and abusers in GenPop, where other inmates can abuse and/or kill them is nothing more than geting someone else to do your dirty work for you. It’s dishonest. I’ve more respect for those whom directly wish to torture and/or kill these two feculent examples of humanity, even though I disagree with them. They, at least, are expressing a desire to tackle the issue directly.
I’m no better, nor any worse, than any other human. I’ve just been willing to take a look at where we’re headed,and the consequences of our actions. It ain’t pretty. We’ve got to realize that “Justice” isn’t what we’ve come to think it is, that an-eye-for-an-eye is less effective than requiring meaningful consequences.
We can’t give this little girl back what was taken from her. We can ensurre that her abusers never again hurt a little child. How we choose to do this will show our standards. I hope we end up looking good. I doubt that we will.
Well, I didn’t realize this was the new board rule. Who has my memo??
Zette
Well, for my own part, I’ll defer to the old addage “the right tool for the job.” You don’t ask a baker to fix your carb, so why should I, an engineer, learned of statistics, probability and quality assurance, think I’d be better at the slow, brutal torture these fucks deserve than a hardened criminal, educated in the ways of sneaky-shiving, soap-bar-blackjacks and sodomy?
You are probably, and in my case, hopefully, right. IMO, some things are out of the bounds of normal compassion, regardless of race, creed or culture. In all likelihood, these … people, will have little, if any, harm done to them, instead they will lose their other children (I hope) and spend a few years in prison. I’d be quite interested to see how other countries handle these sorts of abusers?
Shoot your own dog: If you’ve got an ugly job to be done, do it yourself, as best you can. Get help if you must, but you gotta be part of it. If you’re not willing to get your own hands dirty, then you’ve got no call to ask someone else to do it for you.
/rant/
Has anyone read the part about the little girl having been given away for adoption at birth (to a very loving couple)? The mother changed her mind after two months, and some fuckwit judge gave the mother custody, apparently after complaints had already been lodged against her. And you gotta love the fact that, after they got custody of the little girl, they moved twice to avoid Family Services investigations.
Regarding the above quote, I’d be more than happy to shoot these dogs (both the mother and the father; it takes two to tango). Should they be tortured? No, too much effort too expend. Sterilization? Costs too much. Court ordered counseling, parenting classes, etc.? Useless. When are we going to learn that some people are so cowardly, callous and self-centered as to be beyond intervention?
I’m not a violent man. I could never imagine harming most anybody, regardless of their past crimes. But I would not hesitate to exterminate these sub-human sacks of shit if called upon. I don’t dwell on it, but I know full well that if need be I could do the deed and not hate myself afterward.
That these people commited this horrible abuse, and that they deliberately evaded punishment, shows full well that they are wastes of perfectly good organic matter. I say kill 'em, burn 'em, and use their ashes to fertilize wildflowers, so at least they can serve some purpose in this world.
/rant over/
Here’s to hoping that the original adoptive parents still want the little girl, and that they get custody. She needs some love in her life.
That’s all I have to say on this; I will devote no more negative energy to these two alleged parents. Might I make a suggestion? Rather than posting our vitriol and letting these evil creatures dominate our thoughts one minute longer, let’s hug our children (and if you don’t have any, hug your niece/nephew, or neighbor’s kid, etc) extra long, tell them how beautiful and precious they are, and think good thoughts. And if any Dopers out there suffered as children even a fraction of what this child suffered, my heart breaks for you, and you have my love and good wishes.
Good night.
Fair enough. I’ll respecfully disagree on whether or not they’re salvagable. I think they likely can be salvaged, and therefore we have an obligation to try. If, after giving it our best shot, we find them to still be a menace, well, then stronger measures can be considered.
Always good advice. That’s the best antidote I know for a world gone vicious.
Actually, the second article indicates that it was her idea, and the stepfather, or whatever he was, is the one who “let it happen”. He was also the one who finally dropped a dime. Not saying he shouldn’t be punished, though.
Badtz, I don’t care if that was a “joke”. Jokes do not belong in a thread with this kind of subject.
That’s just sad.
Reminds me of an old girlfriend’s mother I used to keep in touch with… She would tell me how she was raped while a baby, locked in closets for days at a time without food, and on and on…
It’s taken her decades of psychotherapy, medications and a strong will for her to fight off the resulting multiple personalities, post truamatic stress disorder, severe depression, psychosis, etc…*; and become a somewhat normal person.
That girl in the closet will never be a normal person.
Those who are guilty of empowering themselves to commit this calibur of trauma should be at the least, lobotomized.
[sub]Of course they’ll probably be back in society after a few months of the iron hotel.
sigh
[/sub]
The world can be a fucked up place.
Okay, so at one point, many years ago, there was a crack house in an apartment in my building, where a huge number of people lived in a tiny space, and I saw an adult who lived there beating on a toddler who lived there. So, of course, I went and called 911, and the 911 operator informed me that the police can’t do anything about a grown woman beating up a toddler. It has to be handled by Child Protective Services, she said. So I hunted around in the phone book until I found CPS and I called them and told the woman who answered the phone what was going on, and she began screaming, in a hysterical, Kyle’s-mom-on-South-Park-on-drugs voice, “THAT IS NOT CHILD ABUSE!!! IT IS A POLICE MATTER!!!” And that’s all she’d say, over and over in a panicked, breathless voice until I hung up. After expending some effort, I finally got ahold of a sane person, but he just filled out paperwork and never did anything about the babies getting beaten on.
Anyone in Texas who’s ever tried to intervene in a child-abuse situation isn’t surprised by this story. I haven’t seen anything like that since, but if I ever do again, I think I’m going to put myself in between the adult and the child before calling the authorities.
Bob Scene, child abuse happens in every state. It’s not like some states magically don’t have it because they take a special pill and don’t allow fucktwits in. For example, the man who wrote a trilogy about his experiences being abused lived in California. Read about “The Child Called ‘IT’” and the two others in the series. The family of ten who were molested by (among others) their father and maternal grandmother lived maybe ten miles away from me, to at one point a 15-minute bike ride.
I know child abuse happens in every state, but do the authorities in every state go this far out of their way to keep from doing anything about it?
Why not?
Why would you think they do?
I brought amusement to at least one poster on the board, that’s reason enough for me. I think if someone is saying not to say something the burden to explain why is on them.
My reply to the OP, yes Zette of course they should be convicted. I’d be inclined to agree with a “punishment” similar to what they’ve inflicted on the child.
I agree with Sue Duhnym, I would never have dropped in on this thread if I had known it was about child abuse. I think it would be considerate to make note that it concerned child abuse in the OP title. Why? Because adult’s who suffered abuse, parent’s who have suffered the death of a cherished child, and concerned family or friends who have tried to intervene to aid a child in perilous circumstances, would probably feel blind sided and sucker punched. (I did.)
Bob Scene I disagree with you on several points, but I’ll stick to this:
[quote]
Anyone in Texas who’s ever tried to intervene in a child-abuse situation isn’t surprised by this story. I haven’t seen anything like that since, but if I ever do again, I think I’m going to put myself in between the adult and the child before calling the authorities. **
I am in Texas. I have intervened in a child-abuse situation and I AM horrified and surprised by the story. My call to Children’s Protective Services was the second hardest thing I have ever experienced and I’ve been through some difficult stuff. I was literally crying, shaking, and vomiting as I made the call. Children’s Protective Services visited the home immediately and before the child was home from school. I am grateful for the way they handled my concern and checked on the child(ren) immediately. Bob Scene, Please don’t speak for “anyone in Texas”, I’m here and while it was an incredibly difficult, distasteful and disturbing thing to be involved in, I was satisfied with the timing and manner Children’s Protective Services intervened at my request.
Abby
I previewed and it looked fine. Will a kind moderator or administrator please fix the quote. It ends at “…before calling the authorities.”
Thank you in advance,
Abby
I just saw a news item on television that the biological mother has given up parental rights. The child is still in the hospital but the folks who once tried to adopt her will get to take care of her after she is released. Maybe she finally has some good time coming.