Floyd13 raised something that I was thinking of. I’m assuming that she couldn’t just be injected with potassium chloride because that would be an assisted suicide. Which is illegal, right?
At least to me that seems like the best solution. It’s horrible that even though she may be a vegetable that she has to starve to death. I don’t see how that is preferable. IMO, not an impressive showing by either side on this one.
FWIW, I work with fundies – the company CEO hangs out with nationally syndicated evangelists, anti-abortion posters and pro-W fliers on the wall, the whole 9 yards. But these are people who’ve also seen their share of suffering. They are sincere in their faith, and if anything generous to a fault. This morning, the talk around the coffee urn was how they ought to let the poor girl die.
I agree with the rest of what you said, but not this. I agree that there was no politically viable way Bush could have vetoed this. However, I think the evidence suggests that he didn’t want to, but was actually eager to sign it. So, the pitting is still in order.
However, I don’t see that the Republicans are violating their principles (entirely). Ultimately I think that anti-abortion politics is driving this, and that’s a principle most of them support. Course, it violates a whole bunch of their other principles, but they don’t get many chances to push the whole non-sentient humans have rights too agenda.
Not to cry sides and wave a team-flag here, but the honest, objective response to this - I believe - is that this is just want the right-wing nuts want you to believe. I’ve been following both sides of this and every single doctor that I’ve heard comment on it has gone out of his way to clearly state that Mrs. Schiavo will experience no discomfort and what happens to her shouldn’t even be called “starving to death”.
The right-wingers are ignoring this and going on and on about how horrible the evil democrats are for wanting to torture this poor soul to death.
Well, every doctor except Sen Bill Frist, MD. But then he’s not sure if HIV can be passed by tears and sweat or not.
The same people who talk about the importance of parents and the right of parents to control how their children are educated and how and where they live . . . except if that child is from Cuba.
So, we’re opposed to the parents bringing their case to U.S. district court? That’s all that the law provides…a means for the parents to bring their case. Nothing else.
The only reason this story is news at all is because the husband, and the parents & sister disagree on what Terri wants, and she doesn’t have a living will.
I have no problem with her tube being removed, and left to die, if that’s what she wanted. It’s what I would want for myself if I was brain dead.
I don’t want the government to interfere if she wants to die…but to some her wishes aren’t clear. What’s the harm in letting her live another month while both sides are heard in court?
The district court will probably rule with the lower court that Terri should be allowed to die. The supreme court will refuse to hear it. It’ll be done with.
Where does it say that? I skimmed the link and didn’t see it.
Both sides have been heard in court, quite thoroughly. The side that lost refuses to accept the result and succeeded in finding a different court. The new court hasn’t found a good reason to do anything differently, though.
My suspicion is that the pols, having seen that they’ve overreached to their possible detriment, are now hoping that the corpse stops pumping before they’d be cornered into doing anything else.
Be fair to Frist, btw- Jon Stewart cornered him into admitting that it would be “very hard” to transmit AIDS that way. But he did have to be cornered.
It was George Stephanopolous, not Jon Stewart.
And Frist is still an embarassment to his profession.
Whatever will the parents do once all appeals are exhausted? Go to the Haig? (not sure how to spell that).
It is nice (for me anyway) to see my moderate Rep friends look sheepish as hell re: Bush and this. I think for some, this has been a wake up call to the admin’s agenda. Learning curve is shallow, but hopefully it’ll take…
FIFTEEN YEARS. She hasn’t been this way for a month, a year, or even a decade. Shes been gone for fifteen fucking years while her asshole parents got day after day in court. They aren’t insterested in her wishes, only theirs.
If this view is representative of evangelicals across the country, it would signal a major miscalculation by the Republican party. I hope this marks a turning point, when the scales fall from the eyes of the religious right and see that they are being manipulated.
Of course I object. It is none of the federal government’s business. It is a state issue that has been appropriately decided in Florida’s courts. The U.S. Supreme Court has already said it is none of their business.
Bullshit. Her wishes were made clear, clear enough that every Florida court that has heard this issue for SEVEN YEARS has decided in Mr. Schiavo’s favor.
The greatest hypocrisy I see is that they (the “save Terry” camp) think the state courts were wrong to order the removal of the feeding tube, but they’re the same people who think the courts cannot make a mistake in murder cases and everyone on death row deserve to be there. I’ve heard at least one talk show host say both things within a span of 10 minutes.
If she were my daughter, and I honestly thought she would want to live, I would do everything I could to save her.
That said, the parents are idiots for not having her sign a living will when she was capable. And if the only reason they want her to live is “it’s not the Catholic way”, then I’m sorry…that’s not good enough.
I don’t understand, though, why everyone is so pissed at Bush for just signing a bill that allows the parents to file suit in district court if they wish. It seems middle-groundish, to me. He could probably have her feeding tube reinserted by executive order, if he wished. But he didn’t. Let the courts decide. Eventually all legal avenues will be exhausted, and that will be that.
Once she’s dead, there’s no recourse available. Let them exhaust their options.
They did exhaust their options. They’ve tied up this mess in the Florida courts for seven years. Then, finally, a decision was reached, but the Republican leadership decided that they didn’t like the outcome, so they made up a new option.
That’s one of the reasons why I’m personally pissed at Bush (and DeLay, and Frist) over this whole sorry episode. Because their actions are a giant middle finger extended to the rule of law. They just said to every state court in the country “Go ahead, pretend like your rulings have meaning, but if we don’t like the outcome…DO OVER!”
What other laws or court decisions might the current administration disagree with? What other “one time only” specials bills might be passed to throw out whatever decisions the Republican administration doesn’t like?
I don’t think any politician can be right in this case. If you are for it…you are eroding the sactity of marriage, the judicial system etc. If you are against it, you want previously young, healthy people to die horrible agonizing deaths on a whim. If you take no action you are a moron who doesn’t care about family values or human suffering.
The real pitting, and it is probably already here someplace, is her God-dammed family who won’t accept the fact that their daughter had a problem and that the problem cost her her life. Her parents turned their daughter into a political pawn. If you want to point fingers at who is profiting, can someone find out how much they make every time they give interviews? I am sure once this is all over that they will go on a speaking tour, with substantial speaking fees and write a book that people will lap up for $30 a copy. The more publicity they get, the more money they are getting/will get. If I had a million dollars, I’d give it to them to STFU!
The only good that will come of this is more people with medical powers of attorney and living wills. The most recent internet poll I saw said that 72% of people think that the current condition (no feeding tube, her husband makes choices) is the right answer.
I also agree that this case is the perfect illustration for legalizing human euthenasia, if it were a painless shot and off to never-never land (as opposed to Neverland) then she’d have been dead the first time they decided to pull the tube, and the second, and now.
BTW, if you know any Christian Fundies who are appalled at letting her die, point out that God can work miracles and if He thinks this is wrong, He will miraculously heal her.
This is a complex case with serious issues, but in extraordinary circumstances like this, it is wisest to always err on the side of life." - President George W. Bush on the Terry Shiavo case.
THIS is why I’m irked at the President.
If he truly believes this, he has a lot of explaining to do concerning all the death sentences that were imposed during his years in Texas.
I believe that the hypocrisy here is stunning.
And of course, as I’ve said before, there is no legitimate federal issue here at all. This is a matter for state law. I would personally have state law go the other way, and err on the side of life, but the federal government is not the arbiter of “right” and “wrong”.
We have a president, a chief executive officer, not a King. At least not yet. He does not have the authority to write such an executive order as it falls outside the realm of his executive powers, which are to execute the laws of the nation. Until this idiotic law was passed, there was no law that gave him any power to intervene.
Of course there is no specific language in the Constitution that gives the President the power to write any Executive Order. It is one of those powers that emanate from interpretation of the text.
It is not hypocritical to support the death penalty for murderers, and life for the innocent.