SiamSam -Thing is that as goofy as he was the hookworms might actually work for some things. As we discussed in that thread it is true that reducing our exposure to serious, life-threatening, and parasitic illnesses has some long-term unintended consequences including greater rates of asthma and of later autoimmune diseases. For society a reasonable trade-off but one that must be honestly noted.
Isosleepy- there is currently no evidence that the internet does not cause autism and rates of autism have increased significantly during the period that internet usage has increased. I highly suspect that a study can even be done correlating higher than average internet usage among parents of autistics than of non-autistics, and if so those two facts would be much greater evidence of causation than ever existed for thimerosal. Should we outlaw the internet? Should we preach that all should avoid it at least? Just until you have absolute proof of its safety maybe?
There are lots of things that have not been absolutely proven to be innocent of causing harmful effects but which have no evidence that they cause a problem either. Should they all be avoided? What if avoiding those things has definite harm?
For thimerosal the question was, as it often is in medicine and life, the balance of risk vs benefits. Before there was a good substitute for thimerosal the benefit was immunizations that did not get contaminated with nasty bugs vs no identified risk except for the risk associated with a few buying into the anti-vaccine conspiracy theorists fantasy worlds and by avoiding shots placing their, and other kids at risk. (As happened in England as a result of Wakefield’s now shown to be bought off, discreditted, and disproven MMR study ). Those deaths (one in England, two in Ireland) were a cost of the half million pay-off that Wakefield took from lawyers wanting to sue vaccine makers and is a risk associated with the anti-vaccine hysteria. Once thimerosal free vaccines were developed there was no reason to risk the potential harm caused by vaccine avoidance induced by the likes of the Jenna McCarthy’s of the world. And as you can see, the conspiracy theorists always have another vaccine on another grassy knoll.
Meanwhile multiple studies in multiple countries using different study designs have all shown solid evidence of that thimerosal played no role in autism rates or of any cognitive problems at all.
Funny thing, some poster, I forget who, wondered if the reason for continued increases in autism after thimerosal’s removal was better screening but seems not to accept that as a potential explanation for increases before then.
Kathleen,
This garbage appears to be what you sophists call “moving the goalposts”. The argument here is not about vaccination versus anti-vaccination. The argument is about safe vaccines.
Safe vaccines without mercury, aluminum and other junk will do the same job of protecting the public (if they actually work).
Is it a daughter you have who’s on the spectrum? What if she had been male? What if testosterone had made a male child of yours severely on the spectrum like mine is? Can you honestly say you would then be celebrating the joy of autism?
It’s time for you to cease your misdirection ploys. Mercury is a neurotoxin that does not belong in our childrens’ brains. It’s as simple as that, cut nthe crap!
It is a demonstrated fact that the internet causes weight gain and increases the chances of heart disease, diabetes, respiratory problems and joint deterioration.
I know it is true because I found it on the internet.
I feel compelled again to point out to you that you’ve gone so far over the edge that you are doing the opposite of help. Ironically, you have shot so far past “advocate” and into “zealot” status that you also diminish the ability for the as yet unconverted to accept any part of your message.
You will never have any meaningful success until you can actually present anything resembling evidence for your position. Crazy ass ranting about conspiracies just won’t cut it.
As to why DSeid would have any reason to defend anyone pointing out an instance of chelation that resulted in death, I have no idea. I don’t even know if you are suggesting that he is defending the chelator or the person taking note of the chelator or what.
If vaccines don’t actually work, what happened to smallpox? Why are most kids in most first world nations no longer getting measles or HiB or mumps or tetanus or whooping cough or polio?
foresam your only redeeming feature is that you increasingly illustrate just how idiotic your POV is with every post you make. Well that and that you are good for a laugh or too. But that hardly redeems the danger that loons like you represent in their zealotry.
Now I am hardly the poster boy doc for all immunizations are good. I was for example, one of the few docs to go on published record questioning the wisdom of chasing chickenpox and did not think that it was a good idea to mandate HepB vaccine (even though I thought and think the vaccine was a good idea.) But I have also seen kids with Hib and pneumococcal meningitis. I have seen kids who were born with congenital rubella. I have seen children struggling to breathe with pertussis. I have seen all of these nearly mastered by vaccination programs and I have seen that success threatened by strident and idiotic idealogues like you. I spend an inordinate amount of my time each day undoing the damage wrought by Oprah’s quest for a good ratings boost and Jenna’ McCarthy’s well manicured finger pointing in an undeserved direction.
I have no doubt that you are as true a believer as anyone who ever drank Kool-Ade or stayed on in the Waco compound. And your foaming at the mouth lunacy is much better to have out there than Oprah’s reasonable “…some people think …” tripe. Your arguments are like pustules: easy to pop but you still have to deal with wiping up the mess. Still, most will just avoid being around those as purulent as you so you cause little harm. Its the better packaged crap that really makes achieving the best possible public health stink.
Wow, an MD who has seen sick kids!! Ever been in a house with a screaming autistic kid who’s smearing feces all over himself and his room? Stop trying to hide from the damage mercury has caused, reread your hippocratic oath and get off your ass and help the kids your colleagues poisoned.
I’m not the pus filled boil who claimed the CDC said one on six. And you accuse others of moving the goal posts. If you want to say “I think the CDC said one in six” you should take the 45 seconds it takes to plug “cdc autism rates” into Google and see what the CDC does say. If you want to have discussions here without cites and claiming everything is a conspiracy - knock yourself out. You can join a long parade of wackos we’ve had here who have wasted their time here spitting in the wind. Don’t be surprised when we all watch and make fun of you, cause making fun of people like you is one of the things we do best.
(Warning, I believe there is at least one CDC researcher on these boards, but I’m pretty sure she doesn’t worth with autism - you may want to be careful about what claims you make about CDC conspiracies, 'cause we are more likely to believe a long term member who has worked there than someone who, by nearly all criteria the Dope uses to categorize people, is a delusioned wacko).
Tom,
Aren’t moderators, by definition, supposed to be impartial? You never answered my question on a closed thread as to whether or not a lawyer or a poster caused my posts to be deleted. Tattletales used to get beat up when I was a kid, not given respect and safe haven by anyone. I don’t like the way this world has changed.
Moderators are posters who have volunteered to perform clean-ups, fix errors, and enforce rules. As long as I do not abuse another poster using my Moderator authority (particularly in my own Forum, Great Debates), I am free to post as any other poster might. I have not and will not insult you in Great Debates, as that would be a violation of the rules. If you want to act silly in TheBBQ Pit, I am free to point and laugh.
And I did answer the question you asked in the GD autism thread, so I am not sure why you are inventing accusations, here, (aside from what appears to be a general tendency on your part to hurl accusations around like Mardi Gras beads).
The very same; history remembers the bad as well as the good – FWIW, using the term “anorexia” to describe what happens to people with eating disorders is a classic blunder in medical nomenclature.
Do wackos delay parents from seeking appropriate treatments based on the promise of a quick cure? The answer clearly is yes.
The idea of achieving an accelerated rate of improvement over many years through sound behavioral interventions is not nearly as sexy as a rapid cure. The idea of an external cause that is part of an international conspiracy is much more appealing than the back-of-the-mind fears that one must have done something wrong to cause this for their child.
So, the CDC are buttkissing public employees. The physicians are all united in support of one another because of, and are in fact complicit in, their past poisining of children. Researchers, if they are not physicians themselves, are paid off. If they aren’t paid off, then they are buttkissing public employees.
All conspiring for the sheer purpose of making sure that there are more uncured autistic children out there, because they are all so heartless that there isn’t one single person among them who would actually care about children. I suppose, as a psychologist, I should be grateful - there’s more work available for me and my colleagues. Perhaps I am actively complicit in the whole enterprise.
If there is any rationality left within you, I beg you to step back and consider where you’ve come to, whether it fits with who you are and how you evaluate evidence, and what you believe about the world. But with the harm you are doing right now, I don’t feel very bad at all debasing and dismissing you.
Well, you have now changed the question, (why am I not surprised?), but the answer is No.
You posted malicious statements in your posts in violation of our rules. At about the same time, we received a series of e-mails from someone purporting to be a lawyer, complaining of multiple posts by multiple posters. We ignored the lawyer, but removed your malicious statements (rather than simply Warning or banning you for your violations of our rules).