It’s essentially the same what happened to CBS journalist Lara Logan in 2011:
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SHOWBIZ/TV/05/01/lara.logan.interview/
You seem to be impaired capcity in reading understanding.
The profile of the Harraga is not the same economic profile
This is not denigration it is the socio-economic reality.
The Syrian refugees are a mass displacement by civil war of skilled people who would never normally undertake an immigration, except in the normal channels. They are of a completely different profile in terms of the economic skills, much higher skilled, literate, educated, etc These are sociological facts. The profile of the harraga is from the disfavored background, they are young, the are from the bidonvilles - the slums with few opportunities.
the syrians are by skill and experience and background extremely different.
Perhaps you lakc the education to understand economic analysis.
In the Egypt. In Cairo.
Yes. Indeed.
The Egypt is not the Tunisia, not the Algeria and not the Morocco.
Mon dieu it is hopeless.
Muslims are working on their third generation in Germany. If this is a new problem, (as in the police saying this has never happened before), then it is clearly not a problem with Islam, but a problem with the most recent immigrants, related to either their country of origin, the disruption of the culture in their land of origin, or some other factor.
No kidding.
This from you?
You owe me a new irony meter.
I haven’t said that the “socio-economic profiles” weren’t different. The fact is, it doesn’t really matter for the purposes of my point. My point being, you defend one group of people and call others who disagree with you bigots and haters, while simultaneously denigrating another class of people as being undesirable.
Thanks for the responses. I was wondering whether the term in Arabic referred to a fairly well-defined and at least somewhat common phenomenon, or whether it was simply a term for something like group sexual assault. And, I guess, whether the (obviously charged) implication - that what happened in Cologne was the transferral of an already-existing, if not generally condoned, “cultural” practice from North Africa to Germany - was in any way true.
One aspect to what happened in Cologne that seems to go beyond what happened in Tailhook, for example, is that it happened in public in front of more than 80 police officers, with the assumption that there would be no consequences. (That assumption appears so far to be correct, at least for the sexual assaults. In Tailhook, 300 officers saw their careers ended, although no doubt they were also expecting no consequences.) The article linked to by Donnerwetter states that a part of the (alleged) phenomenon of “taharrush gamea” is that it happens in public.
I have done no such thing, I commented on the different economic interests for a resettlement and refugee policy in the context of the policy and the comments on the economic impact or utility.
I made 100% seperate comments on the specific group of little criminals who abused women in cologne.
people who have made specific acts is not the same as the greater group. Do try not to confuse them.
Islamic meaning nothing more than having parents from Pakistan or Bangladesh (and not Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, etc.) with no actual evidence that they participated in Islam.
Where the Christian and Christian-raised secularists covered their asses to avoid doing paperwork or because they figured the girls brought it on themselves.
Ramira, back off on the personal remarks. If you want to refute the ignorance and even point out how the ignorance originates, fine, but direct comments on the intelligence or behavior of other posters is not appropriate.
[ /Moderating ]
You’ve virtually hand waved away 4 TERRORIST ATTACKS while at the same time using Tunis as some kind of dress code litmus test. YOU’RE the one who brought up how people dress in Tunis. I pointed out the terrorist attacks based on religious dogma. The reality of it just sailed over your head. All the attacks in Tunis were against tourists or other religions. It’s not Arab = Terrorist. It’s Islam drives an inordinate amount of terrorism. It’s certainly not an “incident”.
Again I ask you, has this person murdered anyone. Issued any death threats? Taken on slaves? Demanded punishment for people who choose a different religion?
The phrase, it is a real one, in the Egyptian dialect refers to a real thing, particularly in Cairo. Cairo is terrible in terms of the sexual harrassement, I have not seen or experienced anything like Cairo in my life. It is nasty. I dislike and refuse to go to Cairo due to this.
It was noted to happen in the Egyptian revolution towards the end (but not in the start of the demostrations), and many youth activists attributed this to the security state bussing in the poor youth from the slums as well as the well-known and long documented state policy of the baltagea (or baltagiya - another Egyptian word), paid state thugs sent to infiltrate and to break up.
I am told it has gotten worse since 2011.
Making broad sociological conclusions about “North Africa” and the culture of migrants based on an Egyptian sociological phenoneman is stupid and shows a superficial thinking - all “Arabs” the same (although one runs into this all the time and they struggle to understand that one can be Maghrebi, Chilha, and not Arab but speak the Arabic but not identify as the Arab).
The idea there is a singular pan-North africa sociological phenomena to be labeled by the Egyptian Dialect word is simple minded and a gross distortion.
The problem of harrassement exists and as I brought up earlier in this thread we have in Casa, in Tunis the problem of the “casseurs” (the hooligans) and the days when one of the “popular” football teams (that is one of the teams supported by the underclass kids of the slums) plays, people stay away from the stadium and off of the streets they walk.
Of course one can understand abstractly the angry youth from the bidonvilles and the frustrations, but this is not a valid excuse for the criminal attacks on others.
If there is a sociological tie to be made by the Germans, and assuming the information is correct that most of the kids were in fact Harraga, it is not to an Egyptian phenomena, it is the Casaouie phenomena of the Casseur. A different thing, but it is the same youth group band-hooliganism that we can see boiling out of many deprived urban situations.
This sort of personal attack is beyond not appropriate.
Any future post resembling this sort of diatribe will receive a Warning.
[ /Moderating ]
Well, im not so certain this hasn’t happened before. Though the number of victims and perpetrators in previous years were probably less. The reason I believe this has happened before is that these things don’t happen in isolation. I refuse to believe German immigrants turned rapey overnight. More likely previous crimes of this nature have garnered far less publicity.
Also, we have the examples of Rochdale, Rotherham etc in the UK. These sex crimes were largely committed by 2nd and 3rd generation UK Muslims. The MO of the perps were perhaps different in Rotherham and Cologne but the “cultural problems” amongst a substantial proportion of the Muslim population are similar imo.
Geller is a known liar and hate promoter. Can you find any support for her claims in an independent source?
All of the syrian refugees are higher skilled and literate than all the Harraga? Seems like a sweeping generalization of the type that you lambaste other posters for doing with regards to Muslims.
Oh wait, according to you it’s just a fact that all syrians are better than all harraga :rolleyes:
So the answer to my question is that “taharrush gamea” is a real thing, but probably not exactly what happened in Cologne. The BKA could therefore benefit from a more nuanced understanding of Middle Eastern and North African cultures as they try to come up with a plan for stopping this from happening again in German cities. Thanks, I am learning things here.
However, the Rotherham crimes were committed by a limited group of men descended from particular locales, not from every group of Muslims who immigrated. Connecting it to “Islam” is simply looking for the broadest brush to pain the scenario. (In this way it is similar to the claims a few years ago that “Muslim” taxi drivers were refusing to carry alcohol or pet dogs when the group responsible was pretty much entirely Somalian. The notion that “Islam” is behind every problem is merely a way to avoid looking at the specific phenomena to determine the actual events that occurred.
[quote=“Magiver, post:271, topic:742538”]
You’ve virtually hand waved away 4 TERRORIST ATTACKS
OMG 4 attacks!!! By musims!!!
Send in the parachuting brigade of moto-special forces!
Hand waviing - well since terrorist attacks have nothing to do with the original point of the comment, I call it pointing out irrelevancy brought up out of pure prejudice
The incidents in Tunis had nothing to do with women not being charged under laws that do not exist to wear a specific religious clothing, the imagined state of being that is asserted here about women and clothing and law in the region… that was the suject.
But we can look at Terror and see the Relevance - using just wiki pages for even field of play
Tunisia attacks
Terror incidents associated with the Right Wing white american men
So obviously more than FOUR incidents (OMG!!!) - I must thusly ASSOCIATE AMERICA with Right Wing American white men and this is obviously key to understanding the Americans and particularly the types who post about Concealed Carry and other extreme right wing angry white men topics as very clearly in reviewing the above many terror incidents over the same time period, such people frequently kill others, and particularly they attack representatives and minorities.
We have to follow a consistent logic.
Litmus test?
It is one of my cities of residency which I am well familiar with and can easily locate photos for.
It illustrated the FALSE ideas that you types have and promote about the region - which was directly raised here.
Yes indeed.
It is a country I am part time resident in and have relations in. It is thus easy for me to use it to illustrate actual dress of people.
So the FUCK what?
I have above many more than FOUR incidents where Religious or Political “dogma” has killed mulsims, killed black americans, killed people they thought associated with a "liberal " power they hated.’
Four named attacks - maybe three - of course since the Tunisia depends heavily on the Tourism, an attack on tourism is an attack on the power structure. They are attacks on the economy to strive to generate revoliution. But these groups have killed as many Tunisian national guards soldiers as tourists in the back country fighting in the years since the Jasmine Revolution - they are not shy in the end about killing fellow Tunisians, they have avoided only direct attacks.
So no the reality does not sail over my head, it is rather I know the reality 1000 times better than you, both in the structure and the actual events.
Besides being an unsupproted and biased assertion, this kind of assertion is the perfect display of what is known as the religious bigotry.
Geller has been discussed many times here in the SDMB and even in threads you participated in, so I just smile at the claiming of the ignorance and ease of comfort with a well-known extremist bigot.
well it is a real Egyptian thing.
It is not something that I can say is a thing of Casablanca or Tunis.
well in some ways it does ressemble and it can be said to be of roots similar, but it is making a false connection to use the Egyptian phrase and think that the Egyptian case is telling them something general.
if the german police are being nuanced and saying that the idea of the semi-rural or the slum origin youths getting drunk and going on the group groping expeditions is something to watch out for among a certain kind of profile, this is one thing.
If they start building a fixed stereotype that the stories of a certain practice being “a north African practice” based upon the Cairo / Egyptian mega-slum-cities reality, they are getting a badly distorted idea and a basis of thinking that is rooted in an easy racism tinged vision.