Thanks once again to everyone who patiently pointed out that the apostrophe never belongs in the possessive its. That is the most irritating pebble in the shoe of my mind. And so many people perpetrate it!
Excellent call, Gervaise, it couldn’t have been expressed better. It’s like the (now, thankfully, obsolete) typographical convention, once followed by the New York Times, of abbreviating Mac- or Mc- in headlines as M’. An actual example from World War II: “M’ARTHUR RETURNS.” A mental speed bump is exactly what that is. You have to remind yourself the general’s name was really Macarthur.
I always use 's follwing final s because I pronounce it that way. Not everyone does. On David Byrne and Brian Eno’s album My Life in the Bush of Ghosts there is a piece titled “The Jezebel Spirit” in which a holy roller preacher performs an exorcism. He says: “Out! In Jesus name.” Just like that. “In Jesus name.” Not “In Jesus’s name.” I dislike this type of preacher and hearing this was an incentive not to speak like him. I had always pronounced the possessive s after final -s anyway. It just feels right to me.
Another person chiming in on the necessity for the final s after the apostrophe for a possessive noun that already ends in s. Here’s why (play along):
Jesus’ – Hmm. By one style (not “rule,” as someone has pointed out), this could mean either a.) “belonging to Jesus” or b.) "belonging to two or more guys named “Jesu” [pluralize “Jesu” to “Jesus” and then add the apostrophe]
Jesus’s – Can only mean one thing: “belonging to Jesus.”
Take the singular noun and add an apostrophe and an s. No possible misunderstanding.
I know, there’s no one named Jesu (that I know of), but the example works for my students. It works better, I suppose, when you use a pair of words like “John” and “Johns” (which I have seen as a family name, by the way). Then you’d have to wonder if Johns’ referred to two guys with the first name John, or one guy with the last name Johns.
I hate when someone asks for the final word on a subject and we don’t give it to them. Here’s my attempt at a summary of everything we learned in this thread:[ul][]its vs. it’s: Just remember, its is a possessive pronoun, and it’s is a contraction. If and only if you can replace the word with it is or it has, use an apostrophe.[]Names ending in s: Matter of style, not grammar. The majority of people and style guides say to add an s after the apostrophe, but there are exceptions to both cases. As with all style rules, whatever you do, be consistent.Pluralization: You never use an apostrophe when pluralizing a regular word, like blob. However, for shorter words, it’s a matter of style once again. You should be able to get away with using an apostrophe when forming the plurals of single letters, numbers, and abbreviations, in that order. (ie, k’s is more likely to be accepted than 70’s, which is more likely to be accepted than PhD’s.) I suggest using these only when it will help the sentence be more easily read, but be consistent.[/ul]Did I miss anything?
This may just be style, but according to my copy of Fowler’s Modern English Usage, the Jesus conundrum is answered thus: You do the hanging apostrophe if the final syllable begins and ends in the letter S.
I haven’t read all of the above, so I may be repeating, but here is the rule I use. It is not in any grammar book, but it is reasonably clear. To pluralize an uppercase acronym, I use a lowercase s (I started to put it in quotes, but that gets too confusing, so I will refrain); for a lowercase acronym, I use 's and damn the grammar books. For a number I am probably inconsistent, but I think that 70s is better than 70’s. Now for nouns, especially proper nouns, that end with a sibilant (s or x, the latter being equivalent to ks), I once heard a strange rule from an English professor whose three syllable name ended in s: when the name has an odd number of syllables, just add an apostrophe, but with an even number, add 's for the possessive. I think you should follow the pronunciation which usually adds 's for all possessive. But if you find an exception, just add an apostrophe. On the other hand, I add only an apostrophe to an s plural, since that is how I usually say it.
Shade, “Bill’s and Ted’s balls” may be clearer, but it is an awkward mess of a phrase, difficult to pronounce. In a case like this, shouldn’t the really correct solution be to state it as “I deflated the boys’ balls” or “I deflated the balls belonging to Bill and Ted” or “Bill and Ted were upset when I deflated their balls”?
And I think that the apostrophe move to indicate the plural can be invaluable- “The boy’s ball” can easily be distinguished from “the boys’ ball.”
I am really uncomfortable with deflating all the balls of these poor guys. I just do not have it in me to be a proper dominatrix.
The Little, Brown Handbook, whose diktat I’ve memorized in this regard, specifies that the only circumstance in which you use an apostrophe to make a plural is with letters: mind your p’s and q’s.
Hi there - I’ve only visited and posted a few times, but I agree with you Michelle on this one. Actually the question came up when a friend and I were talking about That '80s Show premiering. I was always taught to write '80 and the 1980’s, but '80’s definitely didn’t look right, so I did a little research (love being a govt. employee! ) - it’s '80s.
A lot of the other stuff that is being debated is based on style as someone else pointed out. I hate the way Jones’s looks and I never pronounced it as “Jones’s.” Sorry Mr. Jones.
Anyone have a link showing the proper pronunciation?
And I finally just learned about 3 months ago how to keep it’s and its straight - like others have pointed out, its is a posessive pronoun like hers and his. Thanks!
I noticed a couple punctuation errors - please don’t flame - lol - of all the places to have punctuation errors - in the middle of a punctuation debate.
Michele in SoCal and tangirl, the previous example involving 70’s was not referring to a decade. It was referring to more than one instance of the number 70. Perhaps a clearer example would be, “I have received 70’s on all of my math tests this semester.”
) - it’s '80s.