Okay, baseball fans, let's start pointing fingers at the likely steroid users

In My Humble Opinion
1

Let’s be real: the most interesting issue this season has been trying to figure who was previously on steroids and who wasn’t. With less than two weeks remaining in the season I think now is as good as any other time to start the witch hunt!

Me being a Los Angeleno, the first three I nominate are Eric Gagne, Adrian Beltre & Steve Finley.

I guess being the myopic Dodgers fan, I absolutely didn’t want to believe Beltre was using, but he’s had such a lousy year and no real injuries (as opposed to last year when he seemed to be gimpy all year and still hit 48 dingers) evidence suggests he did IMHO. Plus, Dodgers GM earlier this year somewhat alluded to taking extra care in keeping the Dodgers free of steroid users with the implementation testing. Just as likely could have been covering his ass after letting Beltre skip town, but maybe he was on to something.

Finley has looks like a twig compared to last season (37 homers and popeye forearms) and can’t hit to save his life, which IMHO makes him a pretty obvious user.

Gagne? 100mph fastball last season and now he’s been on the shelf since April. I was at the last game he pitched and watched the radar on each pitch and his fastest was clocked at 94. Maybe he was already injured, but I would guess he, too, was using. And he came out of nowhere to become a dominant closer.

The obvious accusations:
Bonds (duh)
Brett Boone (ditto)
Sammy Sosa (gee, you think?)
Jason Giambi (and I think he’s still on HGH like many others, which is not detectable under current MLB testing)
Gary Sheffield (Sure, Gary, it was flaxseed oil)

Okay, I’ll make that near-sighted (far-sighted?) accusation:
Roger Clemens (43 and more dominant than ever. Hmm. In the immortal words of Bill Murray in Ghostbusters, I’d say that’s a big yes).
Miguel Tejada (where there’s smoke there’s fire and he really became a stud overnight in Oakland, didn’t he?).

Guys I thought in the past were juicing but now am not so sure:
Alex Rodriguez (still hitting the crap out of the ball)
Ken Griffey (ditto, until he tore his hammy again)

I’m probably alone on this, but given his testimony and past interview answers I’m willing to believe Mark McGwire used steroids early on in his career, but perhaps was using over-the-counter supplements when he hit 70 like he said. Not that he could claim that and get off, which might explain his odd responses during the congressional hearings.

Whoa, I don’t want to steal everyone’s fun (plus I’m too lazy to look up all the MLB rosters tonight). Grab your torches and pitchforks and join the mob!

(P.S. I don’t care whether you think steroid use is okay or not for MLB players: that issue has been debated to death. I want names!)

2

“More dominant than ever?” I don’t know. He’s got a tiny ERA, but never finishes a game. Six or seven innings per start is normal for him. Is that incriminating?

No, he didn’t become a stud overnight. I think his stats show pretty steady improvement over his first few years. What’s “where there’s smoke there’s fire?” Palmeiro dropped his name, he was exonerated, and that’s “smoke?”

Even baseball players seem pretty confident Rodriguez isn’t a user.

I love your encouragement of speculation…

I think a number of the players you listed did use steroids, but in a lot of cases, one year is just not enough to judge. Sometimes guys get hurt and have bad years. The only basis you seem to have for suspecting somebody is “he’s good.”

3

Either that or “He suddenly looks like someone inflated him.”

As far as I’m concerned, any baseball player who’s not built like this is suspect.

4

That’d be a different matter. There are some deflated-looking players this year, but I don’t think Moonchild mentioned any of them.

5

You’re focusing way, way too much on players who just played WELL, as opposed to players for whom there’s actual evidence they took roids.

Eric Gagne doesn’t look at all like a roid user, and he throw 96-98 pretty much from the day he got to the major leagues. It’s obvious, if you look at the physical build of major league pitchers as opposed to hitters, that a mesomorphic build isn’t what gives you a good fastball. Pedro Martinez has the build of a fifteen year old boy and he can bring the heat. The players who were most famous for having nasty stuff, like Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, Roger Clemens et al. tend to be pitchers for whom overall fitness was a big deal, not muscularity. They look more like hockey players than weight lifters. Gagne, while he’s in good shape, is no more muscular than three hundred MLB position players.

Beltre always had power. 2004 was just a fluke.

I can’t agree with any of these players. None of them showed a sudden, weird power spike at any given time. All of them were very, very highly rated prospects, Grade A-plus youngsters, projected to be major league stars when they were teenagers. Tejada was only 21 when he made the majors and he was the oldest of the three to do so. None of them have the physical symptoms of roid use, like balloon head (in fact, Rodriguez and Griffey in particular are skinny.)

You can’t just assume that all great players use roids; it just doesn’t seem likely. Ken Griffey was an terrific major league player before his 20th birthday, and progressed gradually from there until he started getting hurt 11-12 years later. When would he have had a reason to roid up? He was a golden child just with his natural talent.

The characteristics of known or pretty-much-known roid users seem to be;

  1. Weird weight and muscle gain, including significant musculature in the neck and head, and

  2. Power spikes late in their careers (Bonds, Palmiero, McGwire being the most obvious examples; Sosa’s peak came about when you would expect.)

6

Where there’s smoke, there’s nasty evil-minded people prepared to believe anything.

7

Not even gonna guess. I had been sure Palmeiro wasn’t juiced, simply because he’s never looked like it. No Popeye arms, no lantern jaw or Neanderthal jawline, just slim and quickhanded. But he was (his career’s over now, right?). I’m pretty sure that a lot of guys who are blatantly pumped up have done it naturally, too.

8

Jim Edmonds–come on, it’s ridiculous enough that every second spetacular catch highlight on ESPN is by Edmonds. Now he’s cracking HRs too–red flag!!

9

Jose Canseco - admitted it
Ken Caminiti - admitted it
Gary Sheffield - did it by “accident”
Barry Bonds - did it by “accident”
Jason Giambi - apologized for “something”
Rafael Palmeiro - tested positive

Mark McGwire - doesn’t want to talk about the past
Brett Boone - generally assumed to have used
Sammy Sosa - ditto
Luis Gonzalez - ditto
Benito Santiago - fingers were pointed
Rich Aurilia - fluke year in Balcoville

Ken Griffey, A-Rod - No one in baseball thinks either has ever gone near the stuff

10

I think the comment about the smoke is more believeable if you consider that Tejada started in Oakland, where the Giambi brothers were also using, rather than Palmeiro’s recent attempt to toss Tejada under the bus. I’ve never been a fan of Palmeiro, and have never thought of his career as spectacular, or even HOF-worthy, regardless of the milestones he’s reached. He’s only finished in the top 10 of MVP voting three times, his highest finish being fifth place. Yes, he has the numbers, but now that we know he has used, and for who knows how long, his career is even less impressive.

It’s almost certain Sosa was using at one point. Even last year I was surprised to see how much he slimmed down. Some other players insterested in slimming down are Bonds (to help his knee), and Ivan Rodriguez. Things look bad for McGwire too.

Neither Griffey nor Alex Rodriguez were using. I just don’t see it. Then again, who would have ever suspected Alex Sanchez? Looking at Griffey and Rodriguez though, there doesn’t seem to be any dramatic change in either’s physical appearance or any bizarre spike in production. It seems both of them will be held in higher regard after the smoke clears and we know not everyone was going on natural ability.

11

I accuse Bob Uecker!

12

None of the Devil Rays get paid enough to afford the stuff. :rolleyes:

::sigh:: Another year, another season that will be over in September.

13

Yeah, I guess that settles the “less filling” or “tastes great”, argument! :slight_smile:

14

Is it well accepted that a pitcher can benefit from steroids?

15

I did think of that, but it’s still guilt by association. The numbers, and as far as I know, the photos, don’t support steroid use by themselves.

It wasn’t accepted in the past, but about half of the MLB’s positive tests have been for pitchers. Even if they don’t really benefit, some of them obviously think they can.

16

Speaking as an SF Giants fan of at least 15 years, I’m really glad to have Bonds back in the lineup. Roids or no roids, he still is an effective batter. His presence has a positive effect on the team, especially as we come down to the wire on the season against San Diego.

17

You’re kidding, right? This has been an incredibly down year at the plate for Edmonds, mainly because he’s played banged-up all year while Rolen, Sanders, Molina and Walker were on the DL. He’s always had a pretty good HR stroke (with his natural uppercut, he hits a lot of deep fly balls.)

There was a rumor earlier this year that Clemens was juicing. The argument was, since steroids decrease recovery time, he could pitch longer and stay fresher through the season.

18

I assumed he was kidding, I hope I’m right. Edmonds’ homer totals for the last decade are…

1995: 33
'96: 27
'97: 26
'98: 25
'99: 5 (injuries)
2000: 42
'01: 30
'02: 28
'03: 39
'04: 42
'05: 29

19

I don’t think this is a discussion about entertainment or leisure, and hence it’s not really right for Cafe Society. It’s a discussion about who you think is using what, and as such, it’s more IMHO… and hence is hereby moved thereat.

20

Anybody else notice how many more threads Dex has moved this season than before? I’m a little suspicious. We should check his hat size.