Okay, even I'm getting somewhat tired of all the repetitious anti-Bush threads...

Why didn’t I see it before? Undoubtedly, you are right because you shout the most and the loudest. Political debate VIA temper tantrum and hissey fit, what a concept! No longer need one concern themselves with inconvienent things like “facts” and “proof”, by gum, just get together with a bunch of your bestest buds and shout everyone else down! Brilliant!

It’s too bad, because now you’re probably going to start seeing posts from people who supported him generally, or at least concerning the war, who’ve turned against him because everything over there, and over here regarding the situation over there, has been so badly botched.

I supported him in this, even though I didn’t vote for him. Actually I’m fairly sure that Gore would have done the same thing, had he been in power. I believed in getting rid of Saddam on its own merits, and I believe in exporting democracy, or at least giving people over there a chance to vote for their own government.

But just look where it’s gotten us. Most telling was a recent interview I heard on NPR in which Bush was saying, more or less, that he’s trying to learn how to get accurate data from his subordinates. My God! that’s the first thing a leader of any enterprise should be able to do! When Bush said that, he sounded like a wet-behind-the-ears neophyte who’s sitting behind a desk that’s much too big for him.

Normally, I stick to the practice of “if you don’t like it (the thread), don’t open it”. But there are SO many with such annoying inflammatory titles. I know all the arguments, from both sides, since I have occasionally opened them, both here in the PIT and GD.

It’s all (both sides) just so much posturing. The thing that bugs me the most about the heat and the intensity is that, do you folks think that ANYTHING you have to say is going to change the votes of the other side?

Unless the various debaters in this ongoing crap are members of the actual party at war, or the party in administration now, then I doubt they know a whole lot more about the “truth” than what the rest of us can glean from the same sources.

The sources being the news, internet sources, books, etc. I mean, even in the subjects that I personally find fascinating (and I don’t begrudge true political brains THEIR own fave subject), I would get a little bored on a steady diet of just that subject, over and over, and in so many threads.

Not that those participating are ONLY participating in the political threads, but DAMN, as the OP says, there are sooooooooo many of them. Sheesh, I think I counted 12 or so in the pit the other day.

Couldn’t it be kept to one or two? Oh well, just a thought.

As was stated above, and by me in that particular thread, when you made the initial “tinfoil” reference, not a single post had made the statements you were railing against. A single poster came along later and said that he considered Bush morally capable of doing so (which is still not the same as saying he’d do it), but at the time of your post, there were 57 posts about the issue, and you dismissed every single one of them with a wave of your hand and a strawman.

It’s freaking me out to hear people talk about “limiting” threads to “one or two” and I desperately hope that the board never goes that route. I’d rather see 2 more areas added (Great Debates: Politics, and The BBQ Pit: Politics) before threads are limited.
groo, love your post!

Agreed, except just make it one additional forum and call it “Lies, Damn Lies and Politics”.

Thank you, Apos. Spared me the energy.

That is an AWESOME idea. I really like the name too.

Didn’t get it, did you? Pity.


Those posters who, as friend Shodan notes in the highest of dudgeon, have expressed the opinion that Bush will stage terrorist attacks in order to cancel the election, should be ashamed of themselves. I quite agree, and call for a stern and public rebuke of those posters.

And just as soon as Shodan can find the time, I’m quite sure he will provide us with the cites and quotes of these Perfidious Liars[sup]TM[/sup], then we can all join him in a wholesome rebuke.

By by by, when do you think that will be, Shodan? Anytime soon?

Nope, the hysteria, as I mentioned, was there from the get-go. And later posts showed that my assessment of the motives and expectations of the participants was accurate.

As I also said, I am sure it doesn’t sound as bizarre to y’all as it does to the rest of us. And I doubt very much if having it pointed out is going to make a difference.

Talk therapy does not generally help with paranoid thinking. When the elections come off as scheduled, it won’t convince anyone that Bush was plotting it all along. And if he wins, it will be a couple of pico-seconds before the multitude of threads accusing him of rigging the elections sends the hamsters into cardiac arrest.


Oh, good, Shodans back. I can read his post and he will specify and cite all those posters who have made such outrageous statements…

Oh. A bit of a disappointment, he is still too busy to amass all those cites. He just barely has enough to time to pillory the miscreants for what they are going to do, he can’t be bothered with showing any evidence that they have actually done so.

Sometime soon, Shodan? Your many admirers wait breathlessly, I am sure. It is unfair to keep them in such sharp pangs of anticipation. Perhaps you had forgotten such a trivial matter? Rest assured, I stand ready to remind you should it escape your notice again.

No, don’t thank me. Least I could do.

I am starting to see a pattern. An allegiance to the present administration brings with it an immunity from responsibility. It is pretty clear that the information on which the government relied in concluding that Iraq had to be invaded without delay was erroneous in almost every respect. My country has managed to get itself in a class A mess based on that information. Yet no one is held responsible. It is pretty clear to me that the information my government chose to act was contested at the time, but my government accepted it without question. No one is held responsible.

My government has been torturing prisoners. At the highest levels of my government memorandums of law were prepared advising that the rules allowed anything but stuff that no one would argue about. That every thing but the extreme is allowed has became the policy of my government. Yet no one has been held responsible but a few low ranking enlisted people.

My President is making campaign speeches in which he asserts a collaborative connection between Iraq and AlQaida. That assertion has been rejected by every responsible body that has looked into it. Yet no one calls the President to account. My President is making campaign speeches in which he accuses his adversary of being opposed to funding for American troops. The claim is dishonest and disingenuous. Yet no one calls the President to account. My President allies himself with elements hold any sort of civil union of homosexuals to be injurious to the nation. The claim is obviously over blown and hysterical. Yet the President is no called to account. My President insists that the invasion and occupation of Iraq is critical to the elimination of the threat from AlQaida. The claim defies logic yet no one holds the President to account.

Our friend Shodan tells us that there are people on these boards who claim that my government will stage fake terror attacks on the country but refuses to tell us who those people might be. Our friend Scylla, who hasn’t been seen around here for some time, advocates a foreign policy of attacking anybody who gets in my country’s way or who might get in its way some time in the future, but goes largely unchallenged. Our friend milroyj suffers no consequence from repeatedly posting inflammatory conclusions and refusing to back them up; yet we act as if he (she?) Is a responsible participant in these boards.

There come a time when bullshit must be identified as bullshit. There is a point that dishonesty must be challenged. That is what the Bush threads are about. If those who are allied with the present administration want to defend the policies and act of my government let them do it. To suggest that those posts are just Bush hating and boring is just a cop out. If these policies and actions are defensible then get up on your hind feet and defend them and quit whining around like a big girl who has split her milk.

Well said.

The worst part is the lack of responsibility for anyone involved in any way. Nobody tries to take them to task.

Actually, that’s not true. The Daily Show takes them to task. A fake news show on a comedy network.

The state of the union is not so good.

I’ve got a creeping feeling that we’re fucked. And that feeling gets stronger every day…


Not yet. By God, not yet!

Don’t hold your breath. I have rarely seen True Believers of any political persuasion willing to discuss issues with any but the most superficial good faith. Generally, the most you can hope for is courtesy.

I’m sorry, but this is the kind of thing I was talking about in the OP. Okay, so we’re fucked. GWB has singlehandedly brought the nation, maybe the world, into an inevitable slide into doom. OR, if he hasn’t already, he will if reelected.

So what are you telling us to do, either now or if he’s reelected? Riot? Take down the government in an armed revolution? Commit suicide in despair because there’s nothing else we can do? Move to Australia? Which are YOU going to do?

PLEASE, tell me what you’re telling me to do other than panic and worry!

(Aside to Spavined: I really have no desire to defend Bush. I apologize if I implied that I did. I’m just a little tired of doom and gloom predictions that eight years of Bush is going to blow up the world or doom the country to a hundred dark years of facist dictatorship, as per the third paragraph of my OP.)

Nah, the country survived Nixon. It can survive GWB. Even four more years of him.

Well, look at the bright side! Maybe we can run the sorry son of a bitch out of town, the rest of the world will look and say “Hey, look at that! They got a government that, if you get a total asshole for Leader, you can get rid of him without waiting for the creep to die or starting a revolution that blows up all the good shit and puts some other rabid facist dipshit in power! Hmmmm, kind of starts you thinking, now, doesn’t it…”

I called you on this in the thread in question (several days ago), and as of yet you have not returned to actually back up your assessment. As I said, there were 57 posts prior to your “tinfoil” comment, so you should have a lot of ammo. Feel free to point it out to us.

Either remain an honest debater, or attack strawmen, the choice is your’s.