Okay, everyone that gets their panties all in a twist over cyclists, in here!

The BBQ Pit
81

In my morning commute, there is a two-lane each way road that leads into downtown. This road is fairly busy, but the traffic usually flows along this road quite well each morning. Sometimes, there is a bike going down the middle of one of the lanes; the traffic piles up behind the bike, and cars dart into the other (full) lane to get around it. This bike is creating a traffic hazard.

Sure, the car drivers could patiently wait for the bike and not dart into the other lane to try to go around it, but let’s stay in the world of what people actually do here. Even if the drivers were to act out of character and be patient, the cyclist is still creating a dangerous traffic condition. I don’t see a solution for these kinds of problems.

And let’s not forget that attitudes are cumulative, too. It’s not a case of a driver being inconvenienced by a cyclist once in their lifetime; in my commute, it’s more like once a day. And you make an excellent point, lawoot - this is part of what cheeses drivers off. Cyclists pick and choose which laws they will respect, then expect drivers to respect them.

82

Ah, I see. Never mind that the other cars are the ones darting around. Never mind the large number of cars being around is leading to the hazards you describe.

Naaaah, let’s blame the bike!!! Its sooo much easier to do that!

If the people on bikes were in cars, do you really think traffic would improve?

83

[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic]

[QUOTE=Malacandra]
That’s “jeopardy”, numbnuts. Never use any word you can’t spell.
[/QUOTE}

Best you can do is a spel flayme? Geez.[/quote]

No, it’s not the best I can do. Your coding bites, too. :stuck_out_tongue:

No, you read mine again:

And parse this as mild exasperation on my part on seeing good manners poorly repaid - not a resolve to do them worse next time.

Oh, and you’re a twat.

84

[QUOTE=Malacandra]

What you claim to be ‘good manners’ is actually basic safety behavior. They need to be repaid no more than you need to repay a person in another car for not T-boning you.

But it was the suggestion that you feel you the need to be rewarded for simple safety with subservience to your impatience.

That is the core of the problem. You, of course, will not see it that way.

And you are a condescending fucknut.

85

I’ll agree that drivers need to be more courteous and safety consious when cyclists are around, but the two examples here seem to fall into the “random catastrophe” category than anything to do with cyclists per se. An inexperienced driver or one that falls asleep could have caused tragedy to a pedestrian, a jogger, or another driver just as easily.

Aren’t those “rides north of Boulder” infamous for cyclists riding 10 abreast across the road and blowing through stop signs and generally poor behaviour on the part of the riders? Not that this has anything to do with the tragedy of the young man’s death, but I thought it odd that you woud use that particular ride as an example.

86

What exactly do you mean by “respect them”?

Because I sure as hell hope you do not mean that because in your view cyclists don’t obey certain traffic laws, they shouldn’t expect motorists to respect their persons. In the context of this OP that’s the obvious way to read this comment.

You wouldn’t be advocating vigilante violence against cyclists would you?

87

All righty then.

I am gonna guess you know how long a city block is, how many cars fit into a lane between sets of lights and the stop and go stuff ,this is normal for most citys I would assume.

So here I would be waiting patiently in line waiting for traffic to move and probably inching up at somewhere around 5 mph if that, while a bicycle or two come flying up curbside doing , meh , meh probably 20 mph , its sorta a reverse of now you see him , now you don’t , yeah it gets irratating.

Bikes , motor cycles , trams, buses , 5 ton trucks , semi’s . Not always gridlock ,but it does happen, and if Toronto city council and their birkenstock pals have their way , no internal combustion vehicles will be allowed on the road.

Well, stay off the road

No, no, no a thousand times no!

I am gonna ansewer this question in another post to an aussie with an attitude

Yup , what I want is a tag that can be read, and third party insurance that covers bikes clipping side view mirrors , denting panels and that sorta thing, plus give walkers some sort of compensation in case of being clipped by a cyclist, same as motor vehicles do.

Make that happen , and insurance companys will come out with over priced packages.

Well thats a statement, I have to work on my arrogance now.

Declan

88

Yo chester , insult me all you want , your just a poor aussie half a world away getting a little steamed that other people have different opinions than you do

Now for the bolded part

Says here in this ontario hand book for driving that driving a motor vehicle in the province of ontario , is a privilege , not a right, so ya your ass is privileged to be on that road ,just like mine is.

If your govt decrees it , then yes , you will pay it.

Well, I see you never mentioned anything about insurance or plates, gee.

I imagine that your like most people , just commuting from point a to point b and some one like me comes along and your splattered on the road awaiting an ambulance to take you to the hospital , where you recover and expect to see some damages and maybe some charges brought up against me or the like minded aussie in your case.

Well , you have witnesses that have my make of car , my licence and pretty much all thats needed for the cops to come and charge me , while my insurance has a claim filed against it.

You , heck you can book it and what are the cops gonna say , no way of identifying you , and if even if they do , what kind of coin is a pedestrian gonna see if you happen to clip him , or her.

Depending on the geographical location ,which will probably vary.

Yeah ,get steamed all you like , but stay off my roads till you have the bare modicum of what we pay.

Declan

89

It’s a rude question, but you’re being way beyond rude so what do I care? How much do you earn a year?

90

Bout 35 k a year ,depending on overtime

Now you can tell me you earn (dependin on currency conversion of course) that you make somewhere between 75 and 150 k a year AUS and you pay more in Vat than I pay in general income tax.

Declan

91

So do you think you have less right to government services than I do? Do you accept that if we both call the police, my call should get higher priority? Do you accept that I (or my children) should get the first pick of schools and teachers? Do you accept that when I want to go faster than you in my car, you should move over?

I don’t think that at all, by the way, but I’m interested in learning just how fucked up your opinions are.

92

Umm, you’ve lost me here. Why would I choose to use an example that affected me personally, as I stated, a man that I had raced against and met in passing who was killed through absolutely no fault of his own? All becasue he was killed on a stretch of road where you’ve heard stories of cyclists doing irresponsible things?

For all of the wretchedly irresponsible riding that cyclists have been doing around here in Boulder, perhaps you can point me to an example of these individuals doing actual harm to anyone. Oh wait, that’s right, that’s because they’re riding bikes as opposed to piloting a 4,000 lb SUV. This isn’t a “random catastrophe.” This is a driver doing something stupid; driving when he was tired and obviously a danger to anyone on the road. You wouldn’t brush aside the dangerous driving of a drunkard or someone with uncontrolled epilepsey. But when it’s driving while dog tired and veering into an oncoming lane, it’s simply a “random catastrophe”?

93

There’s actually a quite obvious solution to this problem. The government agency in charge of the road needs to build a wider shoulder such that motor vehicles can move unimpeeded along-side cyclists. A road widened by two to three feet adds nominal costs to the road but increases its utility and carrying capacity. The cyclists will benefit from a less stressful commute, and the traffic will continue to benefit from reduced motor vehicle traffic because instead of creating greenhouse emissions, using up oil resources, and causing traffic congestion, some commuters are on a bike.

94

That bicyclist is obeying traffic laws and riding in the only safe way he/she can on that road. If anyone is “creating a traffic hazard,” it’s the city planners who neglected to add a bicycle lane*, and the drivers who have trouble negotiating this perfectly commonplace situation.

*An extra-wide outside lane or a paved shoulder (without rumble strips!) would be acceptable alternatives.

Complain all you want, but I’m not pulling over on a winding road. If I do, I know you’ll be passing me with only inches to spare. If it were a farm equipment, would you expect it to pull over and stop in the middle of a winding road? Would it be safe for you to pass it?

95

From here:

So much for that one.

96

Fuck about with terminology all you like, your point is still a dud. Motorists and cyclists are both entitled to be on the road, whether as a right or privilege. Saying cyclists are not entitled to be on the road is, as a matter of simple fact, bullshit.

Yep, and it doesn’t. Deal.

Oh the hoary old chestnut that motorists are responsible for what they do because they have plates, while cyclists are not. What a steaming load.

Try this: put: “hit and run” and “cyclist” into google. Hit enter. Start reading. I only bothered with the first four pages. Every single hit on those first four pages was about a car hitting a cyclist and running away. Not one single one was about a cyclist hitting someone and running away.

There’s a reason cars have to be registered and licensed: they are fucking dangerous. Bikes, by and large, are not and so such measures are not necessary.

Your argument is like a man walking his muzzled tiger in the park saying he has more right to be there than the kids playing, because the kids aren’t wearing muzzles.

97

No, “basic safety behaviour” would be studiously to avoid hitting them. “Good manners” is giving them seven or eight feet of extra room so they don’t even feel insecure.

Subservience? It is to laugh. You’re really reaching here. And it wasn’t just a case of my impatience but the inconvenience of half a dozen other road users, which could have been obviated had the cyclist been willing to delay himself for five seconds rather than everyone else… well, indefinitely really; we came eventually to a straight where the truck could pass; it was no doing of the cyclist that the impasse was resolved.

Granted, but mostly when I’m rubbed up the wrong way. A little tact, and I’m the sweetest sonofabitch around.

98

In case anyone’s interested in seeing a video regarding the case about the individual who hit the Australian cyclists, here’s a link to ninemsn video. Click on “Charges likely as cyclists fight for” (yes, that’s exactly what it says). I recommend clearing the playlist first, though.

99

Check your local laws. Basic safety does involve giving proper clearance when passing. You are doing nothing special to be rewarded.

Tell you what, before you try paw waving the inconvenience to the cyclist, try this. Take the same road, every time you see another car, stop your car, turn off the engine, step out of the vehicle, wait for the car to be out of your sight, then get back in and start up again.

Seem inconvenient? Sure is! But that is what you are asking of the cylist. In fact what you are asking is far, far more dangerous.

100

You get irritated too easily. Why is your irritation aimed at the cyclists and not all the other cars that you seem capable of waiting patiently for?

I don’t give a shit about your local politics, but I am a moderate-conservative who rides. Don’t try and make this a left/right issue.

No. I paid for it. I need to use it. Go piss up a rope if you can’t handle that.

And you did it very, very badly.