For real fun, see how few convictions there are of such hit-and-run drivers… especially if alchohol is not involved. The number of cases I have found could be counted on one mutilated hand. A driver’s liscence is practically a liscence to kill.
Its funny how** Declan** bitches and moans about his ultra-liberal city council, but then decides that what the world needs to solve a non-existant problem is more beaurocracy!!
Anybody driving slower than the flow of traffic (at the legal speed) is a traffic hazard. We’re not discussing other cars in this thread; we’re discussing bikes.
No, I’m not advocating vigilante violence against cyclists. What I mean by cyclists expecting drivers to respect them is, for example, they expect drivers to give them a wide berth when passing, but when everybody is stopped waiting for the red light, the cyclist just drives down the side of the lane beside the cars. Which is it - do you need the whole lane or not? If there’s plenty of room for cyclists to drive beside the cars stopped for the red light, I guess there’s plenty of room for cars to pass cyclists in the same lane.
And red lights/stop signs - cyclists get all bent out of shape (no pun intended) when people right turn across them at a red light or stop sign, but cyclists come up to a red light, fly across in the crosswalk like a pedestrian, turn back into a vehicle on the other side of the intersection, and continue on their merry way, or pull any number of stunts that don’t include stopping in their place in the lane and waiting properly for the red light. You want drivers to look out for cyclists at intersections, I suggest irresponsible cyclists pull their heads out of their asses and look at their own behaviour in intersections.
It’s like reading Animal Farm, it really is: “four wheels bad, two wheels good”. Actually, since a mo’bike’s my preferred mode of transport, I can cheerfully say "a curse on both your houses. I give proper clearance plus plenty more out of goodwill, the same as when I pass horses I give them the whole width of the road if I can, pull the clutch and coast by. And I don’t plan to stop doing so - even if your constant snivelling of “But you’re only doing what the law obliges you to! Don’t you go around thinking you’re owed anything in return!” is becoming a little wearing.
Except that what I was asking for - and what you’re studiously ignoring - is that the cyclist should pay attention to an unusual situation developing behind him: a vehicle fully capable of the posted speed limit, but too large and too sluggish to pass the bike on a winding road, especially once he’s been forced to slow to the speed of the bike in the first place. I’m not expecting him to stop and get off every time another vehicle appears; that would neither be practical nor necessary. Try not to generalise my argument to the point that it’s only useful for scaring crows, would you? :dubious:
One advantage of a bicycle, ISTM, is that if you can be arsed to pull in and stop to let other traffic by, you can do it and be on your way with much less inconvenience than the anile analogy you postulate above. But since we’re battling this whole Animal Farm mindset, I don’t expect this to sink in for a while.
So where is the limit? One car? Three cars? Six cars?
You have a funny defintion of “less inconvenience” that does not jibe with my experience or that of most cyclists.
Times were (loooong) ago, when I lived near country/suburban roads, that I used to get off my bike to let cars by. I actually was taking a huge risk given that there was insufficient room for them to pass. Cars came within inches of me, and while I did not expect gratitude, I did not expect cursing, and attempts to spit on me. At the time I tought I was doing the right thing, I was wrong.
There were other problems with stopping too. Bikes do not have brake lights and impatient drivers tend to forget their stopping zones. Add to that the fact that far too many drivers do not recognize hand signals, I was risking my life somply by trying to stop.
No thank you.
Wrong.
You are comparing a situation where two objects are moving at full speed, to one where only a one is moving (at reduced speed). Can you not grasp that there is a difference?
Sweeping generalization are such fun.
I do not run red lights myself, except under certain rare circumstances. So is my head up my ass? Or am I suddenly responsible for the behavior of all on pedals? Becuase I sure don’t hold every driver responsible for the assualts I have recieved.
As a further to my previous comments: I would point out that this above quote is the same “blame-the-victim” bullshit that I complained about on post #60. Basicly featherlou is saying that cyclists have absolutely no right to complain about people killing them since some commit traffic violations.
That would be an incorrect extrapolation from what I’ve posted here. I have been saying, and will continue to say, that cyclists have a share in the responsibility for how motorists feel about them. The animosity that drivers feel for cyclists didn’t develop in a vacuum. That doesn’t mean that I or most other drivers actively try to hurt them.
Actually, it did. Remove all the bad acts by cylists and you’ll still have drivers going nuts over cyclists being on their roads.
The thread in the following link was started by a person who is pissed at bicyclists. Note that in his OP, he describes nothing that is illegal by cylists. Yet he is still pissed off at them. This is typical of far too many drivers.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=295140&highlight=bicycle
Face it, drivers will have tantrums about bikes without any illegal acts being done.
I did not say that it did. I am saying you are blaming the victim. You are effectively telling a person who got mugged that they should not have been walking in the city.
I bike using VC as my guideline. I stop at red lights, take the lane when it is too small to share with a car, and so forth. I still have had tantrum prone drivers yell at me, throw things at me, and assault me with their vehicles. I have been right hooked by drivers even when I was in the middle of the lane and the first at the light.
But, according to you, I deserved it all, since some cyclist ran a red light somewhere…
Thats nice , pat pat
Declan
Because I can see the other cars, while a bike coming up curbside may litterally just appear
I dont expect you care about someone elses local politics , I really don’t. So i really dont expect to see why you have a dog in this hunt about how I treat local bike riders here , either.
Its not a matter of handling it , like I have a choice in the matter , one of my earlier posts stated that I did not expect bikes to be banned from the road any time soon, just dont read that as acceptance of your perfered mode of transportation , pedestrian.
Meh , like I am losing sleep over it
Declan
I use, and hear, bells on the bikepaths all the time. I’m very pleased at how well Calgarians have been trained to heed the bell. If only they were so courteous behind the wheels of their cars.
This is exactly why I stay on the side roads and bike paths. Whether I have the right to or not, riding alongside traffic doesn’t strike me as being either considerate or smart.
When you’ve just had your ass handed to you, pretending you don’t care is about the only option left, I suppose.
It is the last resort of the sore loser.
Please don’t generalize. When I take the lane, I keep my place at red lights. I would never ride past the cars to get to the front. Why would I want to? The cars I pass will pass me again as soon as the light turns green. And I have never disobeyed a traffic light, except when the sensor is too insensitive to pick up my bike. And even then I’d wait more than one complete cycle to make sure, and try to activate the sensor by repositioning my bike.
Perhaps we should be blaming the few cyclists who do ride recklessly. But “some of them ride dangerously” is hardly an excuse to drive recklessly in return.
First off, Declan, a cyclist will most definitely not just suddenly “appear”. We obey the same laws of physics that all vehicles obey, and any sudden “appearance” is really simply stupidity or negligence on your part. “Honestly, it wasn’t my fault officer! I was just driving along in a wreckless manner where I was going too fast and in a position to be unable to respond to any number of obstacles that could have suddenly popped up in the roadway, from a cyclist, to a child, a stalled out semi-truck, or a cop giving a traffic ticket! He just ‘appeared’, so how can you possibly blame me for running him over?”
Second, guess what, I don’t want to “accept” your fat, ignorant, careless ass sitting behind the wheel of a large automobile while talking on your cell-phone, eating your Big-Mac, and fiddling with your radio with your head down. Nonetheless, the government in charge of your roads have decided that you are indeed entitled to that priviledge, so if we ever cross in traffic I’ll do my best to be as considerate as possible and cause you the least delay without compromising my own safety, and guess what, you’ll just have to accept it without being too much of a jackass.
Suck it up.
Amazing
You start off with physics and move right on over into rant mode , was this strictly for the audience ?
Yeah , won’t some one think of the children that might wander off into traffic, the poor cop that might be giving someone a ticket.
When all I said was that in a gridlock situation , cars may be moving at 5 mph , while a bike coming up the curbside may be actually clocking at 20 cause he or she is in a rush as well as everyone else.
From there , you talk about careening all over the road , being distracted from seeing a tubular steel frame, whos biggest visual cross section will be the riders ass.
Truly fantastic
You gotta deal pedestrian.
Declan
And you’re still an idiot for thinking that bikes “suddenly appear.”
Hint: Bikes don’t have some cloaking mechanism to reveal themselves at the least convenient moment possible for you. They’re not invisible from the front. Just because YOU don’t pay attention to what’s on the road around you doesn’t give bicycles magical powers.
If you want to hold all bicyclists responsible for your ignorant behavior: thanks for killing my friend’s dad, you asshole.