Can you vote absentee?
I haven’t noticed anyone mention a wall. There would need to be a wall built to keep the Trumptards out. And they would pay the cost (they aren’t as smart as the Mexicans).
They’d probably leave up SDMB; authoritarians are far more worried about social media like twitter, WhatsApp, etc, as they can be used to coordinate real people’s behavior in real time. Sadly, Russia has figured out a way to break twitter without actually taking it down. They just throttle the speed so that it becomes virtually unusable. I suspect authoritarian regimes will really go after VPNs and other cloaking technologies. It’s probably time for DARPA, Berners Lee, et al to develop a new version of the web that is decentralized and is more difficult to throttle/shut down
Thank you but can’t agree. Negotiating over Manhattan with Trumpists is unlikely to be pleasant. And I’m sure they would hold out for the While House-Capitol corridor. So dissolution sounds, to me, more like India in 1947. A single nation with widely separated parts has terrible historical precedents.
There are so many pro-democratic programmers in America that there would be more holes in our great wall than China’s.
It is impossible to say what we should or would do because it depends so much on yet-unknown details. Something like the rule of law is not either or, but a matter of degree. So you take what still remains and use it to peacefully gain back the rest. This has worked elsewhere.
The possibility of a Republican attack on the country itself is actually why I took my current job up here in the frozen north, and am working on my Canadian citizenship. I figure that if things get really bad, I can at least get my son up here. If the nation somehow doesn’t manage to lose its collective shit in the next two elections, I’ll still have my American citizenship.
The midterm elections are going to be… interesting. As in, “Oh God oh God, we’re all gonna die”- Wash Hoban, Serenity.
I don’t think authoritarian America would be a North Korean hell whole necessarily. The biggest ‘loss’ is that ordinary people have to endure a progressively shittier standard of living knowing that there’s not shit they can do about it. The middle class evaporates, and you’ve got 10% of the population forever paranoid about what the other 90% are thinking and feeling - that’s probably Russia in 2021, for instance. That’s what I think of when I think of life under a right wing regime in Latin America: rich people living behind gates and armed guards. Paying the police to rough up their opponents.
But that being said, there will be a life that can be carved out in America. You could probably live a comfortable life in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, and many other places across this land. And as long as you didn’t mobilize mass protests, you could probably get away with the odd eff the GOP hashtag, and nobody would care. It’s exhausting to go after political enemies all the time. Authoritarians respond to threats that matter.
It would depend on how it happened. If we’re talking about an election that Trump wins legitimately, I’d continue to peacefully support Democrats. If we’re talking about an election that Biden won but which is stolen by Republican legislatures in purple states, I’d begin the process of emigration to whichever remaining democracy would have me. New Zealand would be at the top of my list, Canada and Australia close seconds after that. Possibly the UK depending on how things are by then. Next up would be Spain, then the non-English speaking democracies. Germany, the Scandinavian countries, South Korea, Japan, and Western Europe in general. If none of those countries would have me, then I’d stick it out, and as a last resort, if things get really bad I’d take the path my ancestors did in reverse and sneak into Mexico.
I was replying to BobLibDem in my first sentence of that post, lol. I probably should have split my reply into two separate posts.
Going by what I read in this sort of thread, a large portion of affluent white people, having the money and skills needed for legal immigration to a country like Canada, would leave. Maybe it’s a fantasy, but a common plan is for the mostly while educated people to emigrate, maintaining their existing lifestyle while leaving those who don’t have what it takes, in money or education, to get out, to the Trumpists.
Another plan I read is to break up the U.S., with states having the highest Black population by percent (Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina) going under the Trumpists.
Under these plans, it is American poor people who are hurt the most. Some would be white, and many would not be.
Autocracy is not a particularly long-lived form of government. I do not advise reacting with despair, or insistence on withdrawing from political commitments.
The plan that would be best for people of color is my country right or wring – if wrong to peacefully make it right.
They keep their info pretty close to chest, too.
I’m wondering what large corporations would do in such a situation. Do they move their HQs out? To where? Would they need to be worried about being subject to takeover and nationalization or whatever if they don’t? I think their economic power could have some say in what happens.
Actually, authoritarianism is the most natural form of government in the era of civilization. Most people born in the las 10,000 years are far more likely to be familiar with an authoritarian government than a democratic one.
They would be pressured to engage in corruption. If they believed that political competition was over, then they would bend over backwards to ingratiate themselves to the part that’s in power. And the party that’s in power would employ a system of political rewards and punishments based on who they perceive to be their friends and enemies.
See, you may very well be right, but I still wonder about that in these days of multinational corporations and globally connected trade. Why would businesses overseas deal with Amazon or Microsoft in such a scenario? How happy would Google really be to hand over all of its globally-relevant information to the government? Especially if the head of this government is Trump, who is well known for generously rewarding those who serve him? Would this really be profitable for them?
Maybe it would, and so they’d sit back and watch the government be taken over knowing they’d be well taken care of. But I don’t think it’s a certainty.
I’ve said this several times, and I still think it’s true: I just can’t envision “the United States exactly as composed and structured now, except dictatorship.” Maybe it’s a failure of imagination, and I realize the inherent difficulties in the U.S. splitting up, but it just feels more likely.
Wait and see what their new constitution will look like:
I could probably still vote from abroad, but I wont.
My point is that when I was younger and still conservative I tried to fight for rationality, but even convincing fellow Christians to just TALK to “sinners” in a reasonable fashion was completely impossible. (surely the easiest way to love someone is just to talk to them like a friend right?? NOPE!)
I feel like the US has completely rejected me, my values, and people like me. Therefore, while I am legally still a US citizen, I do not consider myself an American, I do not participate in American politics (other than to criticize it), and I’d like to become a citizen of some E.U. country someday.
So if the U.S. falls apart, which I think is inevitable and immanent, I hope to be safe somewhere else saying “I told you so!”.
I don’t think a collapse will look ANYTHING like what the posters above seem to think. I don’t think it will be a total dictatorship, I don’t think it will look like an apocalypse, and I don’t think the internet will get cut off. I think that over the next decade the US economy will simply degrade. The rich will stay rich, tech companies will still run, the average citizen will become more and more poor and yet still blame “the other” for their problems while sitting on their ass doing nothing to fix it. I think there is a small chance of a religious takeover of the culture, like what happened (once? a few times? weak on my history here) in the middle east, but I think this is unlikely.
EDIT: I really feel for people who have more “wrong” with them then I. (by wrong, I mean, not a white straight overly-jacked man). As I am literally a white straight man, and was a model Christian. Other than being socially ackward, asking too many questions, and actually caring about my neighbors, there is very little “wrong” with me, and yet I still feel completely rejected.
withdrawn
Amazon doesn’t sell biographies critical of Mao in China. This hasn’t stopped Amazon from doing business in democracies.
Superpowers are graded on a curve, at least by people who don’t live there.
The amount of information we have concerning what was going on in, say, Eastern North American 9,800 years ago is quite limited. There could have been a big change in form of government that swept the area between 7,780 B.C. and 7,760 BC that was overwhelmingly important at the time, and for the next thirty years, but is invisible to us. So I’m skeptical of broad generalizations about the distant past.
Economic development is moderately correlated with transition to democracy. While bad governance is thus correlated with backsliding to less democratic forms of government (20th century Argentina), the U.S. economy could be tremendously damaged with us still being in the range where autocracy doesn’t last long.
So part of how I will react when Repubs end democracy is to think – this too will pass. However, I may be too old to do a whole lot to bring that about.
There have probably always been democratic elements embedded within authoritarian regimes; I don’t necessarily mean that all governments in the past were Kim Jung Un-type autocracies. But systems in which ordinary, working class citizens had some influence on who ruled them are, by and large, much less frequent than systems that are authoritarian.
Humans are probably instinctively inclined to prefer mixed systems, but when a certain class of people are now asked to control large populations, therein lies the problem for the regime. And humans are probably not inclined to just give up power that they have, particularly if they realized they’ve abused that power and made enemies along the way.