Does any treatment plan for an alcoholic “work?” As far as I can tell, long term AA participation has the best chance of helping someone stay sober - in a lot of places its the only long term option available for someone feeling they need continued support - although many people can do it alone. As an initial treatment plan, it may not be sufficient, but it isn’t that much worse than other treatment plans. In patient rehab is very expensive. Out patient rehab isn’t much cheaper. AA may be the only form of “treatment” available.
But addiction is really only fought by the overwhelming desire of the individual for change. All the AA in the world, all the rehab in the world, won’t help someone who WANTS to keep drinking. And for someone motivated to stop, force of will may be adequate.
A friend of mine who was in AA called it people’s “bottom”. Basically, every person has a “bottom”, or low point if you prefer, that once hit gets them serious about recovery. That is not to say recovery is easy or fast or a sure thing by any means. She told me every person has a different bottom and for some that bottom is below the point where they will die from their addiction. For others it could be a DUI or loss of job or hitting their kid or or waking up in a hospital or whatever. Point being is each addict needs to reach that “point” where they realize they need to get serious about addressing their addiction.
It is this very dangerous-seeming aspect I would really like to have studied scientifically. Are people more likely to be successful in their recovery if they hit “bottom” first? Is losing your job and/or hitting your family and/or living in a ditch the point you should wait for before seriously considering getting help? If this is a disease, it is the only one I know of where you are told that real recovery can’t begin until you’ve hit bottom-it seems a bit counter intuitive to me, and I want to see some studies.
The force of will may or may not be adequate, depending on how affected by alcoholism a particular individual is. In my case, willpower was totally inadequate, and I am NOT a week willed person. I was a functioning alcoholic for years, meaning that although I had progressed through the stages of alcoholism, I still had a career, paid my bills, etc. for a good many years. It takes an incredibly strong will to remain functioning like that, despite the ravaging effects of excessive alcohol on the mind and body over a long period of time.
As I hinted at in my first post, I had every reason in the world to stop drinking. Sobriety meant that I kept my family and job, drinking meant that I lost both. Knowing this I still drank.
Alcoholism is much more than a physical addiction. I had “dried out” many times, always swearing that it would be the last time that I had to go through the withdrawal process. Actually I never had any problem getting sober, but staying sober on willpower alone was absolutely impossible for me. I would come up with various strategies and schemes to avoid temptation. I wanted, more than anything to be free from alcohol. But yet I always started drinking again. I started drinking again even though I knew that it would probably mean another trip through detox hell.
When I showed back up at the doors of Alcoholics Anonymous in June of 2006, I was in absolutely terrible shape. I was having terrifying hallucinations, I was hearing voices, my body was extremely malnourished, and I wanted to die. This was actually nothing new, I had been down that road many times. Fortunately, the good people in that group had the wisdom to call 911 and get me medical attention.
The difference this time around was that I had reached a point of desperation where I was willing to do anything that AA suggested I do, even though it went against what I personally believed. Facing death will do that to you.
I have followed the program of AA to the letter, even though I defined myself as an atheist when I first started. And yes, that includes all of the praying and asking a higher power for help. Hows that for irony? I prayed even though I didn’t think there was anything to pray to.
Today my definition of a “higher power” is whatever power it is that pulls drunks back from the brink of death and gives them hope for a different life. I just leave it at that. My higher power is not “God” as defined by the christians or any other religion. I thought when I started that the bible was a bunch of crap and I still think that today.
Am I deluded and brainwashed? Personally, I don’t give a shit if I am or not. I wake up in the morning with no hangover, I’m not inducing vomiting while in the shower just to get it over with. My relationship with my children is being restored, and I’m generally a pretty happy guy. This past year has been the absolute best year of my entire life, including all of the years prior to entering that hellish realm of acute alcoholism. And most important of all, I have not had a drink in over 4 years! And perhaps even more important than that, the all powerful obsession with alcohol is no longer present. I don’t fight the desire to drink, I simply don’t have it anymore. Also, the friendships I’ve developed in AA are the best friends I’ve ever had. They can depend on me and I know that I can depend on them.
It is my belief that ANY alcoholic who is wanting to get sober and finding it impossible, and is willing to go through the entire process of the 12 steps can have the same results. I have seen this time and time again.
Unfortunately, this is the reality of alcoholism. I certainly could have avoided many of the extreme consequences had I stopped earlier. And I certainly tried to stop. As I said earlier, every place that I tried to get help always steered me toward AA, and I was not willing to go there because of the whole spiritual thing.
When I lost my job I swore that I would quit. When I hit my youngest daughter because she poured my vodka down the sink while screaming that she wanted her daddy back I swore that I would quit. When I ran out of money and the house was getting foreclosed, I swore that I would quit.
However, none of these things were enough to overcome the all encompassing obsession. It was only when I had to make a choice between death and surrendering to the AA process that I was willing to do what the AA program suggests.
I would also like to point out that nobody in AA ever insisted that I do anything or believe anything. What happens in most AA groups is that people share what they did and the results of those actions. Members are free to follow their example or not, it’s their choice.
I was never ostracized from AA just because I refused to belief as they believed. I never got told I couldn’t attend meetings because I was drunk. I was always welcome. That is a good thing because when I had suffered enough that I was willing to try anything, I went were I knew I would be welcome. At that time there were very few places where people knew who I was and I was still welcome.
This post, and your previous posts about your history with AA, lead me to believe you have something I’ve heard called “The Tommy Syndrome”, named after the character Tommy from the rock musical of the same name. This character found a path to enlightenment, and automatically assumed that this was The One True Path that would work for everybody. You have found a path that seems to have worked for you, your belief about this path has been reinforced by seeing others that follow the entire path and seem to have recovered the way you have, and the process you follow teaches that not following the entire path is failure on the part of the individual and not the process itself. Have you done any followup on those that have left the program to see if the found a different path? Did you try other programs that others have found useful to see how they might work for you? Did you consider that saying that AA is successful as long as you stay sober and stick with the program is a self-fulfilling prophecy, much the same way that chastity pledges work 100% of the time, right up to the time they don’t.
No, this is a belief system that, so far, seems to be unsupported by any scientific studies that I know of. I wonder how many people’s lives have been destroyed because they believed this without question-“I have to hit rock bottom before I can have a real recovery.” I wonder how many families have been destroyed, how many jobs have been lost, how many poor souls have died in ditches because they thought they weren’t ready for AA yet? People who are severely drunk over a long period of time are not in the best position to be making decisions of this sort and, your beliefs to the contrary, I don’t think following the questionable advice written so many years ago by a couple of drunk amateur psychologists is very wise.
One question. How could not following the process be a failure of the process? If I’m working for a company in order to stay employed I have to follow the procedures and processes laid out by the company. If I don’t than I won’t have a job for very long. If I lose my job because I didn’t follow the company’s procedure, is that a failure of the company or is that a failure of myself?
In answer to your questions, yes I have done quite a bit of “follow up”. The people in the program are my friends and even if they elect not to participate in AA any longer that won’t change the fact that they are my friends.
Outside of the people that come to a few meetings and then are never seen again, I can think of 11 people that have left over the past six months or so for various reasons that I know their current condition.
One is still not drinking and say’s he’s not struggling. Good for him. My hat is off to him. One is not drinking but says she is thinking of coming back because she’s obsessing about it. 3 are dead. One died in a car accident driving while intoxicated. One drowned in about 6 inches of water because he passed out face down in a creek. One died from the DTs trying to sober himself up after having drank for a solid 6 months. The rest are in various stages of active alcoholism. None have tried any alternate methods aside from brute-force, white-knuckle willpower. (For most alcoholics willpower is not a solution, as my history more than adequately demonstrates.)
In answer to your second question, what alternatives are there? When I was searching for a solution that did not involve AA, I couldn’t find any. I think that’s quite telling that EVERY detox and rehab center that I contacted over that time used the twelve steps of AA as their primary “therapy”.
In answer to your third question, who cares? I go to at least two meetings per week and intend to keep doing that. If AA works as long as I continue participating, then I will keep participating. It sure is better than the alternative.
Emphatically, AA does not suggest waiting for help !
The whole concept of everyone having a diffent bottom is very useful for the newbie in AA who maybe somewhat ambivalent about changing his lifestyle at this particular point in his life based on his present condition. Does he really want to descend further? Make no mistake. AA will not work unless you are serious. Didn’t you read the part where everyone has a different bottom ? Mine was a simple DUI and loss of job 30 years ago. I never saw it coming. I don’t need scientific studies to know that unless an alcoholic reaches a point that he seriously can’t accomodate his addiction, no treatment plan is going to work for him.
Look what they’re saying about Lindsay Lohan. She’s got the money to get the best treatment in the world that money can buy
During all my years of trying unsuccessfully to quit, I never once considered not trying because I hadn’t hit rock bottom. In fact, every time I quit I said that I was as low as I could stand to get. I had rode the elevator all the way to the bottom and it was time to get off. Then I would drink again and that elevator would crash through my supposed bottom into a new depth of hell that I never could have imagined before. As I’ve said, it was only when I was willing to do the unthinkable, which would be following the program of AA that I ever got any relief.
Look, I’ll be the first to admit that AA is a hard pill to swallow. Hell, it took me over twenty years of declining health, finances, and family life to even consider swallowing it.
I know that AA works. For me and millions of others. If millions of people claim that the impossible (staying sober) has now become possible due to the AA program, certainly that has some validity, doncha think?
Again-“The Tommy Syndrome”. You kept trying until it was finally successful for you, you marked that point in time “rock bottom”, and you assume that others won’t succeed unless they follow your path. Again, I would like to see studies that show that people have to bottom out before any recovery will be successful because other diseases don’t seem to work that way.
If we had that many people to follow up on to see how successful they really are(rather than just just repeating the meme that you have no way of verifying), scientific studies would be available in abundance, doncha think?
AA can claim any number of successful cases they want precisely because their members are anonymous.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say with the first paragraph.
But you are right, AA is anonymous. There is no central office tracking individual membership. There are no fees or dues. Members are free to come and go as they please. Precise records are simply not kept.
But I’m still going to ask you this question. Do you or do you not think that millions of people claiming that the impossible has now become possible has some validity?
“Bottom” means “when you realize you have to change your life.” It doesn’t mean that you wait for something horrible to happen. It is just whatever triggers that realization. It actually could be a happy event, like a child being born, that makes you hit “bottom” and want to change. But typically, it is some shitty event that makes you reconsider your path, because, IMHO, that’s how humans are for the most part. They don’t like to change unless not changing is more painful than changing.
It’s the same with anything whether weight loss, your relationship with your dad, your study habits, or anything. You usually coast along telling yourself you are getting along fine until something makes you reconsider.
When did I say that others won’t succeed unless they follow my path? I don’t recall ever saying that.
My “rock bottom” was much lower than most alcoholics. I have never even considered the possibility that a newcomer to the program won’t succeed because thankfully he hasn’t sank as low as i did.
