In this thread, someone who is presumably Orthodox, or at least has such a background, complains that not one mention of Orthodox practice is present in Bricker’s article.
My impression is that the Orthodox practices are more extensive because Catholic practices (pre-Vatican II) were already scaled down quite a bit. But was there really a common fasting tradition (however long it took to develop) that one geographical side remained faithful to, while the other side reduced in intensity?
(I’ve learned over the years not to assume too much along these lines.)
Secondly, are there significant differences among various national churches that have traditionally recognized each other as Orthodox?
Finally, is there any truth to one woman’s complaint that fasting for the laity was made more severe by monastic zeal? (Although the monasteries did not enjoin non-monastics to their level of severity.)
the rules for fasting are the same for monastics and non monastics.
fast days are usually wendsday and friday year around. there are a handfull of times in the year that wed. and fri are nonfast days. those usually fall before or after a lenten time.
the major fasts are: great lent, ss peter & paul/apostle fast, dormition fast, and nativity or advent.
one is to abstain from meat, dairy, fish, oil and wine.
shellfish (if you like it or aren’t allergic) is allowed; along with fruit, nuts, vegetables, grains, roots (i always throw in twigs and bark as a bit of a joke).
fish, oil and wine are allowed on certain fast days ie palm sunday, annunciation.
the days and what’s on the menu are on the church calendars, one just follows along.
the church tells non clergy types to try and do what they can or what their health allows. fasting rules do not include children under 7 years old; after 7 it is up to the child or the parents.
should one follow the church’s fast/feast cycle you are a vegan for half or a bit over half a year depending on the pascal date.
eggs are lumped in with dairy. no eggs during fasting.
there is one egg perk… after great lent and great and holy week, should you make it to the end of the pascal service (it can be quite long) you do get a red dyed hardboiled egg!
I lived in an Orthodox country for two years and I didn’t even know that fasting was even an Orthodox tradition. Hm. I’m not sure if that’s because it’s not widespread, or if all that communism beat the religion out of them. I’ve certainly never heard of Orthodox people fasting for religious reasons.
Not all Orthodox churches celebrate Christmas at the same time, this I do know. Most Orthodox churches do Christmas in early January, but I know that at least the Greek and Bulgarian Orthodox Churches do it on December 25.
As an observant (Orthodox) Jew, I find this discussion fascinating. For us, fasting is, well, fasting - no food, no water, nothing. For our minor fasts, the time is basically from the break of dawn until after sundown; for the two major fasts, it’s about 25 hours, from sundown until a bit after the following sundown.
To me, it seems the practices outlined in this thread are not fasting, but restricting oneself from certain foods.
There is a language conflation problem here: people are using “fasting” to mean both “fasting” and “abstinence”. Fasting is “not eating” (or in the RCC meaning eating less than usual, if work needs to be done then you eat what you need to eat to be able to do it; I’m not sure what the names would be in English but translating directly from Spanish they’re “total fast” and “partial fast” respectively), abstinence is “not eating certain things”.
some monasteries will be vegan all the time, and have meat and dairy for major feast days, ie pascha, christmas, theophany, or patron day of the monastery if it doesn’t fall into a lenten cycle. some have only a once a day meal. it depends on when and who founded the monastery.
the orthodox church is “free will” oriented. the church teachings are given and it is up to the individual to follow them or not. that will be dealt with later when you have to account for your life and how you lived it.
the clergy is there to teach and help you follow the teachings, and bring you back to the path if you go off of it.
kyla, communism did have a toll on the church. the churchs there were not able to teach the religion and books were not able to be printed. the church has made a comeback since the 1990’s, i remember someone in my church had a newpaper from moscow that had a front page article on great lent and what one was to do. quite a difference.
just like anywhere, people have their kids baptisted and may be go on a major holiday and don’t do anything else, and consider themselves part of that religion.
Well, if fasting = not eating specific foods (which is not my understanding of what fasting means at all), it’s a Bulgarian tradition to eat odd numbers of vegetarian dishes on Christmas eve. Does that make sense? Like, five or seven different dishes, but never four or six. I’m not sure why, but even numbers seem to have a negative connotation in Bulgaria. (You can’t give people even numbers of flowers, either, only odd. Even numbers of flowers are for funerals.)
The “Old Style” (Julian Calendar) has December 25 (Gregorian) falling on January 7. Not all Churches reatin the Julian, but even those who have switched to Gregorian generally keep Easter (“Pascha”) with Old Calendar Orthodox.
Wow. That’s very, very ODD.
Are they trying to remind people that it’s wrong to try to get even?
I doubt that’s it, since the idiom wouldn’t translate!
I’m not sure where the custom came from or exactly what it signifies, but I understand it’s also practiced in Romania. I don’t know how widespread it is.
According to the Orthodox over on Christian Forums, it’s pretty widespread across Orthodoxy – the Lenten-type fast of abstaining from meat, oil, and such, that is. My suspicion is that it’s probably a longstanding and nearly-universal custom among the especially devout, observed by others to a far lesser degree if at all.
Also I’ve noted that Orthodox don’t take the formalistic approach to fasting that Catholics and certain Protestant groups do. You don’t tell people you’re fasting, nor do you see it as absolute prohibitory – which may sound like looking for loopholes, but isn’t. The term for how Orthodox see rules as applying and exceptions excusable is oeconomia, and it’s a slippery concept, best illustrated by example. Say it’s during a meat and cheese fast you’ve decided to keep, and you’re unexpectedly invited to dinner or to be an overnight guest. If they serve food containing the foodstuffs to be abstained from, your proper course is to eat them, with no demurrals and no qualms. Why? Because it’s the greater courtesy to subject your own pious custom beneath their convenience and desire to show hospitality to you, rather than making an issue out of your abstaining from that stuff or simply not eating what they kindly and generously prepared and offered you.
Simple explanation here – some but not all Orthodox jurisdictions still observe religious festivals according to the Julian calendar. Since each national synod is a law unto itself on matters of ceremonial, this divergence bothers them not at all. And of course the Orthodox reluctance to accept innovation is there in full force. (Q. “How many Orthodox does it take to change a light bulb?” A. “What means this word ‘change’?!” :D)
