Hmmm… it doesn’t sound like you have any actual knowledge of the JREF challenge; you get to clearly specify the terms of the experiment in advance; It’s funny that you’re suggesting they would engage in weaselling. No, not funny - ironic.
I get to set the parameters?
Huh. What’s the threshold?
Is there a link?
And hey, don’t call me a weasel.
Well, your post above is classic weaselling; pre-weaselling, even, because you trotted out a whole list of reasons why it might not be quite right before even trying.
Pretty much all you would have to do to apply for the challenge is formulate a claim; something like “I claim to be able to detect, in a double-blind trial, buried metal objects at a rate significantly above that of statistical fluke”. You’d have to go into details, for sure, but nobody will demand 100% success.
Here’s the link:
Well, I read the link to the dowser, that guy’s a frickin’ moron.
Read the JREF guidelines. I don’t think this would qualify because it’s not paranormal.
And hey, I was weaseling about the locating machines, too. Which are not paranormal, either.
What is it that you claim to be able to do, exactly?
Actually I was giving excuses for the JREF to weasel, not me, if you read my post a little harder.
And I still don’t think it’s paranormal.
My claim (I am making a claim!!! How the hell did this happen?)
That underground utility lines are detectable in certain situations by taking two flags and waiting for them to cross each other when the line is walked over. The likelihood for them being accurate is less than official locating devices, especially when the devices are directly connected, but higher than random chance. Clear lines are easier to detect than separating out one specific line in a bundle, or in a heavily utilitized area with lots of underground pipes/conduits/lines.
This is more like a compass. If you have a lot of other crap near, it’s not going to work as well. Just like a locating machine will get readings from clutter. I would also get a 2’ grace, either side, just like locating companies do.
Hey, I don’t like this. This is starting to sound serious. But it still isn’t paranormal.
I understood what you were trying to say. I don’t think you have any good reason to say it.
Well, I think you have the basis of an entirely workable application for the challenge there. It doesn’t really matter that you don’t personally consider it paranormal; you’re describing something for which I don’t think there would be any mainstream scientific explanation.
We know. You were making up imaginary excuses they’d come up with as a justification for you weaseling out. That is very weak.
Irrelevant. Randi thinks it is, as does most of mainstream science. Ergo you can win a million dollars simply by doing what you claim to be able to do. End of story.
So why have you not applied for this?
Sure there is explanation, it’s the same principal certain locating machines work on. Which *isn’t *paranormal.
And this isn’t like dowsing. It’s more like how AM radio gets messed up by overhead lines. It might be different scientific phenomena as to why it happens, sorry, my electro magnetic knowledge is scant. (Boy, would my dad be pissed reading that sentence.) But the principle is the same.
I’m going to go google this non paranormal phenomena for a while, then eat some turkey. I’ll be back.
Only anecdotal story I can relate is 2nd hand. We had a historic area that was walked by a dowser (by request) and he marked out a line of water. They were looking for an historical tailrace (water sluice) on a farm. I don’t know the conditions of the event but he found what they were looking for.
I’ve never tried dowsing and it would be a pointless exercise where I live because I’m sitting on one of the largest aquifers around. You can’t miss hitting water. Might not be the water you want to drink but its down there somewhere.
With that said I don’t see why it’s so hard to believe people can locate anomalies in the landscape. All you have to do is walk around with an AM radio to realize how fickle the reception is. I can consistently drive by very narrow areas (the width of a car) and loose a station to what I’m assuming is a geo-magnetic change in subsurface terrain.
If nocturnal migrating birds can navigate based on magnetic heading it’s certainly possible that humans have some sense of it. If flowing water carriers minerals with it I would imagine that it affects the subtle changes in magnetic waves. All of it would be measurable on-site if someone were inclined to do so. It would be more accurate than trying to duplicate an event when the event isn’t accurately described.
If someone is dowsing an active power line underground that is easy to verify. You use an AM radio and something like a drill. The drill creates interference that can be picked up by tuning an AM radio to an off station and listening for the static of the drill. I’ve used this technique to locate a damaged line.
I can successfully dowse for dirt, and have done so many times to entertain company. I move around the back yard with a stick, and when the stick suddenly dips, I know I’ve hit dirt. We’ve found dirt at that spot nearly 100% of the time.
It doesn’t matter that you don’t consider it paranormal; JREF isn’t even interested in your explanation of how it works, if you have one. All they’re interested is whether you can demonstrate it successfully, and you get to define what ‘success’ and ‘failure’ mean in advance.
Are your certain? Several ‘locating’ machines have turned out to be little more than ‘dowsing machines’.
Certain devices, such as Metal Detectors and such, work by having a decent strength field to interfere with. The human body does not have this, no do the flags.
It isn’t even close to having anything to do with EM theory. There’s not enough EMF force to cause the effect you describe. Ergo it is paranormal.
There is no science behind what you describe.
False assumption. A more likely culprit is objects in the way of your radio and the signal. I.e., the shape of the landscape, not what is underneath it.
It actually takes a fair amount of power to mess up an AM signal. This is why you get the diruption from power junctions, lightning strikes, etc. Geomagnetics isn;'t going to cut it.
Honestly, it’s not something I have thought about. I worked this job 13 years ago. I have never heard of Randi, or the challenge, or any of it. I also don’t consider this paranormal. Odd, yes, interesting, yes, but on the level of exorcism and telekinesis, no. Me, at 23 years old, with a bunch of guys, utility workers, standing on the sides of roads, or in fields with bent over flags looking for a damn line we know must be down there somewhere, but doesn’t register with the locator, and it’s 10 frickin’ degrees, and no one wants to get the shovel, and not only do we find the line, but we find another that no one knows about. Happened more than once.
Anecdotal, sure. True, sure. Paranormal, no way. Let me go research this. I really didn’t know this was that spectacular of an event.
Moreover, electromagnetic fields generated by buried cables does not simply emerge as a distinct zone at ground level directly above them.
I’ll repeat it then:
/mode=Dr. Evil
One MILLION dollars.
/mode