Despite the fact that people posted multiple examples of exactly that.
You are not–at least not simply by virtue of having a CCW permit or by being a gun owner or by saying you are–a known safe and reasonable gun owner.
EVEN IF we stipulate that it’s unreasonable to want to mitigate the relatively small risk of accident that is simply due to firearms being fallible devices and humans being fallible creatures (and I don’t think we should, personally, especially given the sorry state of the academic research on the topic in general as amply cited by ExTank and Whack-a-Mole), people who don’t know anything about guns almost by definition don’t have the mental framework, ability to successfully judge habits, or mental tools to properly evaluate your safety precautions and skills.
This is not about you. This is about the idiot grandmother who keeps a loaded, unsafed, unholstered gun in her purse. This is about the dumbfuck who keeps a gun obviously in his pocket and falls asleep on the couch in the middle of the Lions game. This is about the fool who pulls his gun out of its holster because it’s riding up or he wants to show off and sets it on the end table and takes his eyes off it for one second too long. These people EXIST in the real world. That you are not one of them does not change the essential fact that not everyone who might invite you to their home will know or even be capable of judging properly that you are not one of them.
I used to be friends with a group of cops. They claim most cops never use their guns in the line of duty. They are out looking for troublemakers every day. Yet so many civilians think they are in deep peril from savage serial murderers. They believe they need a gun to step out their front door. OK if you want to do it, but it is not reality.
No they didn’t. They posted examples of someone leaving a gun in an unattended purse or someone falling asleep with a gun on them. Neither are examples of what I was talking about – someone properly carrying a concealed firearm on their body. If a person properly carries a concealed weapon like I’ve described, the risk is indeed minimal. I’ll continue to wait to hear about an example of a kid finding and disarming a person carrying a concealed weapon (not a gun in a purse or from someone who idiotically fell asleep while armed), since that’s what I’ve been talking about since I entered this thread.
Fair enough, just like having a driver’s license is obviously not a way to say you’re a safe driver.
See, I think we’re on the same side here, because I agree with this statement. I said if people want to debate how to properly evaluate someone’s gun safety, that’s a rather difficult thing to do and that’s a more rational reason for not allowing strangers to carry guns into your house… At least much more rational than having an outright gun ban and giving no reason whatsoever.
The fact remains that if a person is properly carrying a concealed firearm (keeping it concealed, out of reach, etc.) the risk remains as close to 0 as possible. The real problem is determining if the person is capable of properly carrying – something one would only know if they’re really close to that person and know them well.
An “outright gun ban” emplaced “with no reason whatsoever” would indeed be somewhat odd and irrational. However, you have participated in this thread for pages and pages and yet inexplicably missed dozens of posters offering perfectly cogent reasons for banning guns from their homes.
This argument makes absolutely no sense. Of course most cops never use their guns in the line of duty. And of course most civilians who carry guns don’t use them either. And? What does that have to do with anything? The whole point is it remains an option to use as a last resort, to defend your life or property. I’m sure a lot of drivers will go through life without ever having a crash that requires airbags, yet they exist. Does that mean airbags are useless and don’t have a place in society?
Oh wait, airbags do have a purpose and they’ve saved lives, just as the defensive use of guns have as well. Civilians don’t think they’re in “deep peril from savage serial murderers,” but crime like carjackings and home invasions do happen daily. And this site, which I’ve posted a few times already, shows what you claim doesn’t happen in reality.
Most of the reasons I saw were because the homeowner has an irrational fear of firearms, or because of ridiculous stories dreamt up as worst-case catastrophic scenarios like a person eating a lot and falling asleep and then a kid discovering and taking the gun, or the person getting drunk and presumably doing a massacre. I wouldn’t call either of those “cogent reasons.” Of course maybe I did miss a few decent reasons.
I really don’t see why everyone is going so uptight about my position. I’ve already repeatedly said I would respect the homeowner’s decision. Wanting at least a rational discussion of why they don’t want someone carrying a concealed weapon in their home isn’t that much to ask.
You steadfastly refused to admit that any responsible gun owner would ever ever in a million years with a cherry on top do anything even slightly irresponsible while carrying a firearm.
However, just now you frankly admitted that most people are not equipped to determine whether a gun owner is responsible or not.
Of course they’re anecdotes. They’re preliminary reports of incidents which may or may not have occurred. That’s why all those people are identified as suspects.
Why? Because it is my right to determine who comes into my property and what activities I allow there. Just as it is my right to own a firearm, and I have no need to explain the reasons behind that to anyone.
Nope. What I said was that the risk posed by a responsible gun owner (one that follows the gun safety rules, for example) who is properly carrying a concealed weapon (that is, a weapon that is not in plain sight and is reasonably inaccessible to others) poses a minimal safety risk. And I fully agree that the problem here lies with determining whether a person is a responsible and safe gun owner. That is a reasonable, debatable point!
Yes of course it’s your right! I’m not arguing that for the millionth time! All I’m saying is that it’s also up for discussion as to the reasons why you wouldn’t allow a certain activity on your property. People saying “because I said so” makes as much sense as people citing the Bible for proof against evolution. It’s a cop-out and prevents the exchange of viewpoints.
And as I said earlier, it is exactly the same justification people use for owning and carrying firearms. It’s a reason I support. I also don’t feel I need to justify why there is a requirement in my house that (most) people wear clothes. If you want to go nude in my house, you explain to me why the standard rule should not apply.
I just have no understanding of why the reason for that is in any way relevant. Some people want others to take their shoes off when they enter their home. Others want people to not carry a gun. I would never think of asking why to either request.
As I understand, the reason is that the homeowner doesn’t like it. I’m not sure how much exploration this requires, or what intricate roadmap one thinks one can follow to navigate through the dislike and arrive at a compromise.
Someone not liking it is reason unto itself. If they don’t want me wearing pink undies to their house, I probably wouldn’t.
I don’t need to know whether it’s a religious, philosophical or ethical viewpoint – they asked, and obviously I care enough to still want to go to their house, so I comply.
No I would not. Nor would I ask people entering my home if they were legally carrying.
Now if that statement by itself makes me seem like a jerk or crazy, I can only refer you to the hundreds, if not thousands of words I wrote in the other thread on this exact question to back up my position.
