On-board LAN and sound card?

Okay, so I’m building a computer, and right now, I’m shopping for the mobo. One thing I’ve always taken as gospel is that anything “on-board” is evil, partly because it’s one less thing you can yank out when trouble-shooting, partly because it’s just one more thing that can break, thus forcing you to shell out for a whole new mobo just to fix, say, the sound card.

So, one mobo that I have my eye on, and that I’ve heard great things from all around, is the ASUS A7N8X. Sounds dreamy, but it has built-in sound and LAN. That has me worried.

First of all, should I be worried at all? Second, is it possible to add a sound card that will bypass the on-board audio? Third, if either the on-board LAN or audio crap out, is the entire mobo hosed, or can I just ignore them in favor of separate components?

  • Jeff

Most (all?) mobos allow you to disable any or all onboard periphs. FWIW, onboard LAN is preferable as it frees up a PCI slot although I’ve found most onboard sound to be iffy. If you have an open PCI slot then you can install your own soundcard and everything’ll be hunky-dory.

Onboard components can be disabled through the BIOS, and you’re gonna have one rootin’-tooin’ good time finding a decent motherboard without onboard sound these days anyway.

And from what I’ve heard, the nVidia Soundstorm onboard audio (which is what you get with the A7N8X Deluxe version) is just as good as–if not better than–many Sound Blaster cards anyway. My dad just got a new mobo (an Epox) with the nVidia chipset, and all the onboard stuff works perfectly, sound and LAN and all.

Wow, cool. Just saved myself $80 on a sound card then, at least for the time being. Okay, so hypothetical question:

Assuming PCI slot availability isn’t a problem (and I doubt it would be - I can’t imagine filling in those 5 PCI slots), and assuming I actually get a second or third computer such that a LAN is even needed, would there be any reason to buy a separate component to handle the LAN, or is the onboard one going to be pretty much as good?

Another, less hypothetical question:

I just discovered the Asus A7V8X mobo, which also has the onboard sound and LAN, as well as Firewire and RAID support, 2 more USB ports, and it’s $5 cheaper on New Egg. Is there any reason I shouldn’t get this one? Better quality + lower price don’t typically go well together. Can someone fill me in?

For the record, here are the specs on the A7N8X and the A7V8X.
Jeff

I’ve got an Intel MoBo with built-in 5.1 sound and LAN. Seems to work just fine.

I happen to build and troubleshoot computers for a living. So that has to stand for something. :wink:

You should have no problems with the onboard stuff. As posted before, you can simply disable it in the BIOS, after a little hunting for the options. The problems that you speak of were valid, say, four or five years ago. But anymore, I actually recommend the onboard stuff because it cuts down on compatibility issues.

If you need an example, try to figure out the new AGP 2X/4X/8X “standard” in video cards. Basically, 2X is compatible with 4X. 4X is compatible with 8X. But 2X isn’t compatible with 8X. And that is only if the motherboard accepts the new card. It’s starting to get out of control (again).

A network card is a network card is a network card. They all act the same way. Very little difference in performance.

I’ve found, unscientifically and unofficially, that onboard sound is equal to or better.

The only reason you would want a second LAN card at this point is if you wanted to do a thing called Multihoming to your computer, for the sake of Multiplexing. That is, you devote one card for incoming data, and the other card for outgoing data, essentially. Mathematically, this exponentially increases your bandwidth. The downside? Few, if any, ISPs offer this service. You need to buy another user account and IP address for the second card, and there is usually a service charge tacked on top of that. It is quite expensive.

But let’s get more practical.

Since you mentioned you would be getting multiple computers in the future, think of the logistics ahead of time. Two computers is easy - just run Crossover Cat 5 (very important, or it won’t work) between the two LAN (aka Network) cards.

But three computers is different. You can simply buy a hub, router, or switch (I have to recommend the switch) and plug all three computers into the device, so they can communicate with each other. Or you can hook the two computers on the ends into each of the two LAN cards in the computer in the middle. In this last example, the middle computer essentially becomes a low level server for the two computers on each end. After some configuration trickery, viola, you have a peer-to-peer network. LAN party away.

By the way, if you go shopping for a hub/router/switch and LAN cards, look for the package deals. Those are of the best value, plus the compatibility is pretty much guaranteed.

About the other Asus motherboard, with the RAID and Firewire. The difference in the price could simply be a marketing strategy. Maybe they bought too many to sell. Maybe they are trying to clear up warehouse space for something of more value. You just cannot tell. The name Asus is a reputable name, so as long as it isn’t reconditioned or reserviced or previously returned by another customer, it should be fine. The only problem is that the extra options and accessories always have a hidden price of headaches in troubleshooting and compatibility. It will work, it just may be a headache.

In case you don’t know, RAID is a form of data redundancy within your computer, and only works if you have more than one hard drive (not partition). The Firewire is the high speed USB that Apple invented. It is used mainly for video production and that sort of high bus speed necessity activities. Plus, the two extra USB ports can’t hurt.

All in all, I doubt that you will use all of the extras to their full potential. Some of that stuff is server level stuff. It will all work, but read the manual. And if you don’t know what you are doing, choose “Reset Default Settings” in the BIOS.

But most importantly, try to order the computer case and processor assembled with the motherboard, even if there is a slight manufacturing cost involved. That will insure that the computer was properly manufactured, maybe quickly tested, and at least worked at the warehouse.

I have the A7N8X. I use a seperate LAN card and it works just fine. The built in LAN card would be fine for most things, but it’s not that great for games. I use the built-in sound and really don’t notice a difference between it and my old SB Live! You can disable most of the stuff in the BIOS when you start it up. You can even selectively disable stuff–I have the built-in LAN disabled, for example.

I have the Asus A7V8X, and I’m quite happy with it – mine has an on-board gigabit Ethernet LAN, but I’m not sure if all sub-models have this. While Asus engineering is usually among the best, there are some minor downsides to this board:

  • When connected to my stereo, the on-board sound card emits an extremely annoying low buzzing sound, ie. probably interference from some other component on motherboard or in the chassis. It could be the cable, or the stereo, or something else, although the cable works buzz-lessly with my Apple PowerBook. I might have received a semi-defective model.

  • According to the manual, “DDR400 supports one socket only”. I guess the manual was not written by a native English speaker; I think they mean that only one of the sockets supports DDR400 (aka PC3200) modules. I have two PC3200 modules installed, and the system doesn’t seem to mind, but it probably lowers the memory bus speed to 333Mhz. Of course, memory speed hardly ever matters, and I personally couldn’t care less.

  • Asus Q-Fan seems to be supported only for certain fans – I’m not sure. The option is disabled and grayed out in my BIOS. So if you’re interested in this feature I recommend doing some fan research first.

Overall an excellent motherboard.

You want the Asus A7N8X Deluxe, not the non-Deluxe version. The Deluxe features nVidia Soundstorm onboard audio, which is one of the best consumer audio solutions currently available. It can play with the big boys, even the expensive PCI card solutions like the Audigy 2. The non-Deluxe doesn’t feature any Audio Processing Unit, it simply uses a cheesy DAC chip and software audio.

On pretty much ANY board you get, the onboard LAN is fine. There’s really no concievable reason to upgrade, unless you’re making a server or want Gigabit Ethernet capabilities. In some cases FPS gaming may require an upgraded NIC, but the one featured on nForce2 boards (such as the A7N8X Deluxe) is really a high quality one already, featuring some of the highest performance available (easily beating professional cards such as 3com).

I have the Asus A7N8X Deluxe and I highly recommend it. It was only a few bucks more for the deluxe. Without double checking, the difference with the deluxe is better onboard sound, dual onboard LAN (instead of single) and onboard RAID controller. IIRC it only cost me like $15 more.

In my experience on-board audio is inferior and tends to have noise that a separate card does not. this is my experience with several laptops and with the Epox 8KHAL. OTOH, I still think it is a good thing to have as it adds practiclly no cost to the MoBo and can be sufficient in many cases. I have a separate sound card which has been waiting to be installed for many months because I am too lazy to do it. This is a sign that on board audio can be enough. You can always disable it and install your own card.

On board LAN I believe should be fine and I have never had any problem. Does anybody remember when the mothr board had the microprocessor and main memory and everything else was on secondary boards? One board had the disk controllers. Another board the printer and serial ports. Does anybody today think that was better? A printer port is a printer port and a LAN port is a LAN port. It’s not like it’s cutting edge stuff.

Let me just clear up a small but significant thing that Chicago Faucet said: FireWire is not in any way related to USB and there’s not even a hint of compatability. It’s also called iLink or IEE-1394. Windows XP supports it directly (and so does SuSE 8.2).

My PC’s motherboard sound was okay – via8233 chipset AC97 sound. Worked under Windowses well enough, and worked under SuSE 8.1. For some reason it wouldn’t work under SuSE 8.2 and I didn’t feel like troubleshooting, so I put in the cheapest $20 SoundBlaster 16 PCI I could find, and it worked right away under Windows XP, 2000, and SuSE. And it’s LOUDER. Preferring a Mac, my PC is my “POS” (and that don’t mean point-of-sale, buddy) computer, so I only have the original Polk Audio, non-amplified speakers it came with. The Soundblaster was really an improvement. I’ll stress again, though, that since I don’t really give a crap about this computer (well, I do, but if I had to give up one this’d be it) I don’t really appreciate the better audio, but it truly is better. Only that the SoundBlaster occupies a PCI slot.

The mobo is a DFI PM-12EL, and the onboard sound was only a BIOS setting to turn off.

The on-board Ethernet works great. I don’t understand why it wouldn’t be good for gaming, though, since the true bottleneck would be the cable modem or xDSL modem, right? And if it’s the only device on the LAN (well, not in my case) there’s no collision problem, right?

I guess for having said all that, there was no substantial problem with the on-board sound other than SuSE 8.2 compatability that probably doesn’t even interest more than 1% of the world. :frowning:

Balthisar, you are correct. Thank you for clearing that up. What I meant to do is compare Firewire, in concept and application, to USB. However, the two are not at all compatible.

The two boards have different chipsets. The more expensive board is based on the nForce II chipset, which was the #1 or #2 chipset you could buy for Althalon-based computers, last I checked, while the cheaper used VIA chips. Since the VIA MB is cheaper, I would assume that the chipset isn’t as good, since both boards are from Asus, although I don’t remember exactly how those VIA chips measured up. I’d be fairly confident saying that embedded sound wouldn’t be as good, as the nforce Delux sound package was light-years ahead of any embedded sound system before it.

The chipset is the heart of a motherboard, it should be your primary consideration when choosing a motherboard. All the “embedded this” and “this many USB ports” things are gravy.

BTW, the delux version of that nForce-based board also does firewire.

-lv

sailor: You can’t really compare the cheap integrated audio “chipsets” of yesteryear to today’s high-end onboard sound. nVidia Soundstorm is Dolby Certified to output realtime-encoded Dolby Digital 5.1 sound, and can passthrough Dolby Digital EX 7.1 from a DVD or other source. Using the digital output, nVidia Soundstorm will sound just as good as any high-dollar soundcard. Using the analog output won’t sound as good, but the A7N8X Deluxe features good DACs that provide comparable quality to an expensive soundcard.

The nVidia Soundstorm and Via Envy24-series really are lightyears ahead of the AC’97 codec chips we had to put up with on motherboards awhile back. There’s no comparison.

Sometimes on board LAN is better than PCI card - especially with gigabit LAN.

PCI gigabit LAN cards can swamp the PCI bus but sometimes on-board ones are connected directly to the northbridge, thus elimating this problem.

I just noticed a slight hit to my ping running the onboard LAN vs. my card. It tended to run around 100-120, vs. my usual 50-75. YMMV, of course.

I’ve built a few computers using that board in the past six months.

No problem thus far, good performance, and yes… as previously mentioned they can be disabled and cards can be installed if worse comes to worse.

Awhile back? that’s what I have on my board right now!

The point I was trying to make is that, in my experience, an equivalent sound circuit seems to sound better if it is off board than on the MoBo. Every laptop and integrated sound MoBo that I have had seems to have problems with noise from other parts of the main board leaking into the sound. In my laptop you can hear noise in the audio when the disk is working. it may be a problem with the power supply lines or whatever but I have not had this happen on separate boards. And I agree, AC97 sucks but i am too lazy to install the audio board I have waiting for several months now.

And the point the rest of us were trying to make was that, prior to the nForce line of chipsets, onboard sound has been directed at budget systems, so the sound processors themselves have been cheap components.

The high-end sound varient of the nForce II chipset, on the other hand, was designed to be a reasonable sound solution on high-end motherboards. People with $10,000 speaker systems might argue that it’s not the equivalent of a high end SoundBlaster, but most people with $200 (or less) speaker systems wouldn’t. So it’s not a fair comparison.

Also, this relates to the whole point of the OP. He knew that, in the past, onboard sound was shit. He didn’t need you to tell him that onboard sound is usually shit. He wanted to know if this was still the case for this new board. So people who were familiar with the board told him that no, the sound is actually pretty good on this board.

-lv