On the Many Failings of Capitalism

I rather derailed this thread with an exasperated reply to Sam Stone’s sad libertarian rant on the blessings of free-market capitalism, and figured I should give him the opportunity to respond in a more appropriate venue, which is this thread.

I’m distilling three major contentions from Sam’s post for my argumentative purposes here:

[ol]
[li] Free-market capitalism (but not, apparently, contemporary American capitalism?) would provide all with equality of opportunity, leaving everybody free to prosper according to the extent of their talent, skills, and work ethic.[/li][li] Capitalism does not require that anybody be poor (although, see the thread above, maybe it does, but only 20%).[/li][li] The market solves all questions ideally: there is no better tool to set prices, wages, or indeed (necessarily) anything that cannot be as easily quantified, such as the problem of ecological pollution.[/li][/ol]

I may be off base with my summaries, so this might be the first bone of contention. I’ll be happy to be correct, if the corrections substantially alter the position I’ve sketched; I’m also happy with emendations, if I missed a major contention. I’m also assuming that Sam would prefer to speak of ideal free markets when making these claims, rather than the markets that exist. I will do so below.

My reply to these points will be twofold, I think. First, I should outline why I think those points are mistaken on their own, which is to say, even assuming that capitalism is the only possible system: that this is not, in fact, how capitalism works. And I’ll have a more fundamental critique to follow this with.

So, in a nutshell:
[ol]
[li] The crux of the matter here is, of course, the idea of “opportunity.” I offered, in the other thread, the example of the Monopoly board. Here’s equal opportunity (with the “luck” of getting to be the first to throw the dice): the rules apply equally to everybody. But, of course, if the means of acquiring anything are distributed unevenly from the start (as they are in the real world), there is no real equal opportunity. Monopoly reduces the variable to one: money. But in the real world, we have many more variables, of which money is just one: sex and gender, race, class, geographical location, religious upbringing, etc., etc., are all involved. These produce the conditions for participation in a market: the free market provides equality of opportunity to participants in the market, but on a pre-structured playing field. Even the ideally free market—in which nothing whatsoever regulates the flow of goods, services, and money—does not offer equality of opportunity, because opportunity is not merely access to it. The idea that it is only your own set of skills and work ethic that determines your success is a chimera that supports the status quo by permitting the casual dismissal of poor people as lazy and stupid, rather than forcing us to consider the structural deficits of the system at large[/li][li] Yes, capitalism does require that some people be poor. It is built on the exploitation of those who do not own the means of production so that the capitalist can amass profit. Profit is achieved through the sale of goods and services for more money than went into their production. But where does the extra money come from that allows anybody to buy that finished product? Quite simply, it comes from not paying those who labor more than is absolutely necessary, up to and including nothing (slavery)—from exploitation, in other words. Exploitation is by far the more useful word, too, because poor is relative: neither you nor I, no matter how much we own, are poor, compared to the virtual slave laborers in China’s and Bangladesh’s clothing and electronics industries; but we are all exploited (if wage workers), because we are not being paid for the value we impart to a product, but simply according to the minimum possible level. But even for any half-way sensible definition of poor, capitalism requires (will necessary result in) poverty, because the rate of capital accumulation goes up with the amount of capital you have, while the rate of total capital doesn’t follow it: in other words, more and more money must be in the hands of fewer and fewer people—which results in poverty for those at the bottom.[/li][li] The market just has not been shown to do any of those things, in fact, it has been shown to do the complete opposite in home mortgages, in tulip prices, in stock prices (at least half a dozen times in the last 100 years): the evidence for which facts is the resultant economic crashes, which I doubt anybody will deny. Nor can the market set “fair” wages, because there is no equitable distribution of power among those disputing “fairness”: if I need work to live, I may not be able to wait for a better offer; but if you don’t need ME in particular, YOU can wait. If it were up to the free market, we’d still be having slavery.[/li][/ol]

Finally, and very briefly (and I realize my opening gambit here is in many way unsatisfactory): the more fundamental problem is that none of this answers the question: what is the free market for? I firmly believe that the goal of human activity should be the achievement of maximum emancipation, security, justice, and happiness for all. The free market ideology would have a little bit of these things for those who, by the laws of the free market, have proven themselves “worthy”. There’s a fundamental moral disconnect here between free-marketers who see failure on the free market as sufficient to denounce whole human beings and those who think that the free market should not determine by economic success who should be able to live their life to the fullest.

Just the opposite is true - capitalism does not require that anyone be poor. Profit comes from the exchange of value. The poor have less of value to exchange, therefore capitalism has less opportunity of exercise than when everyone has more.

Incorrect. Capitalist economies generally out-perform socialist ones - see North vs. South Korea, East vs. West Germany, the USA vs. the USSR, etc.

Again, historically exactly the opposite is true - slavery was abolished in the West under capitalist economic conditions.

To the extent this means anything, it doesn’t mean anything.

The free market is information. It is the communication of perceived demand and perceived supply, in which each consumer decides for himself what he wants and how much he wants it, in comparison to everything else.

Everyone gets a better chance to live life to the fullest by being able to decide for themselves what would enhance their lives. You have a gadget, I have a whatsit. You want my whatsit more than I want it, I want your gadget more than you want it. We exchange - and both come out of the deal better off than before, because both have something they wanted more than they had before.

Marxism (which is what is described above) doesn’t work. It has been tried, but it has failed. It’s as simple as that.

Regards,
Shodan

Shodan, while I appreciate your showing, you will notice that this thread is about the failings of capitalism, not about the comparison with socialism. And while I also realize that your style is the short pithy note, I would much appreciate if you could elaborate on your various claims, all of which, as a moment’s notice will show, miss the point. Just as an example:

Which nobody ever disputed–just that it was not the free market that did it. Do you disagree?

In other words, while I appreciate your desire to contribute, I would ask you to contribute meaningfully. Thank you.

That’s debatable, actually.

Oooo burn! :wink:

I think a paraphrased quote is in order here.

Capitalism is the worst possible way to run an economy, except for all the others.

Yes it has its problems, all the others have worst problems.

First, the problem with the promotion of capitalism and pure-capitalism of the let’s pretend we can have truly free markets, is that the powerful always politically skew markets in their favor with laws and the markets aren’t truly free with respect to the most powerful in respect to potential newcomer competitors.

Second, capitalism as an end in itself serves no wider purpose of “we the people” than the laws that regulate it. And the current pure-capitalism is that all regulation is bad, when clearly, regulation is the only measure that prevented our whole environment from becoming the industrialized toxic waste dump. Libertarianism style capitalism would require the public to have to choose to remove lead from gasoline, not by legislation, which we did, but by market choices of consumers and producers. No end of similar examples in virtually every area of law could be generated, yet the capitalism-uber-alles crowd as a matter of policy opposes all regulation.

The first thinker on capitalism, Adam Smith, grasped that nations have obligations to their citizens, and in fact the poor and derelicts had institutions to offer assistance.

Ronald Reagan style conservatism dealt with the poor and mentally ill by dumping them on the street and villainizing them and shutting down all funding to assist them.

Capitalism may explain parts of a successful economy for some, but it needs to be modified from undiluted form by regulation to take care of a nation.

Right, right - hence your reference to the “means of production”.

I understand your reluctance to talk about the real world, instead of merely allowing some vague maunderings about self-actualization and how those nasty capitalists are exploiting the poor. Understand, but do not sympathize.

I’m sorry - what misled you into thinking that your opinions as to my contributions were at all significant?

Did you have any response to my explanation about how capitalism requires the poor was the most preposterous bullshit?

Regards,
Shodan

I think most people would argue that a system with slavery is by definition not a free market. All the enslaved are not able to operate in the marketplace, therefore it is not free.

So, the process of going from a system with slavery to one without it is sort of by definition brought about by a process other than the free market, because a free market definitely does not exist prior to that point (and might exist afterward).

How free a capitalist market is is not a simple binary switch, but exists on a spectrum. But there’s a fundamental difference between regulations like “you can’t own people” that make people more free to do what they want, and regulations like “you can’t sell people a house for $x”, which might protect people from bad decisions, but do restrict some people from doing what they want.

Actually there is a fairly strong case that slavery is bad for the economy.

Which is, of course, another strike against the goofy notion that capitalism requires the poor.

Regards,
Shodan

There are definitely problems with capltalism but let’s step back and define the term, shall we?

Capitalism: the money system
Why bother criticizing it for its failings if you can’t think beyond sticking band-aids on it hither and yon and pretending that by redistributing or managing the behavior of the money system, you can make it all better?

A patched and ported and post-facto-redistributed money system is not a panacea. What it tends to be is a wheezing and inefficient money system that still has the same failings (somewhat diluted) as well as working (less efficiently) at doing what the money system DOES: reward competition.

The failures of the money system are basically the failures of adversarial (serious, non-entertainment) competition. And they are not failures as assessed from WITHIN the value system of competition, mind you, they are failures from the standpoint of people who value things OTHER THAN competition.

Build something that isn’t freaking based on competition.

There’s enough to go around and more than enough people to do all the necessary work even if each of us only works a few hours. The competition approach, with its economy and its values, arose in a time of scarcity. It is geared to prevent freeloaders and lazy people eating the limited produce. (Those attitudes do, in fact, persist, nonsensical though they are in an era where the biggest concern is lack of employability).

[South Park Mode]Stupid freaking commies[/South Park]

I take my hat off to your OP. It is in the hope for this type of posts that I frequent this place and I’m curious to see whether you will enjoy as substantial and rich responses as your “unsatisfactory opening gambit.”

Social democracy has a better track record.

The problem is have with free market capitalism is that it’s not a naturally occurring system. Some systems create and reinforce the conditions that cause them - but capitalism does not.

In the real world, you’d win at capitalism the same way you’d win at Monopoly. You’d drive all of the other players out of the game and you’d own everything. There are plenty of real world examples of businesses where one company has “won” and no longer is subject to real competition.

So to keep a free market working, you need an outside entity that can force the capitalist companies to play the game within certain limits.

Imagine a version of Monopoly with free market rules:

  1. The goal would be to keep the game going not to finish it. (Although plenty of real games of Monopoly never seem to end.)
  2. Players would not have to be equal. Some players might have much more money or property than others. But no player would be able to accumulate all of the properties or money in the game.
  3. Any player in the game must have the potential chance to become the richest player in the game. No player should ever be able to achieve an insurmountable lead where it’s impossible to overtake him.
  4. There should always be a number of players in the game. Players might leave the game but new players should be allowed to join the game. And there should be opportunities available for these new players to succeed. It should not be that all of the properties get bought early and any player who joins the game later on will not have any opportunities to buy any properties. New players might start at a disadvantage but it should be possible to overcome this disadvantage.

Obviously, this would make for a strange game of Monopoly. But it’s the way we profess we want the real world of economics to work.

How can you talk about the “failings of capitalism” unless you propose some method of addressing those failings? It’s all very well to talk about the ridiculousness of the tulip mania, but planned economies have their own excesses.

Very few people would insist that capitalism is always “fair”, except by tautology. However, by proposing to make the system more fair we’d have to agree on what would or would not be fair. If we can’t agree on fairness then we’re left with simply asserting our personal preferences. And even if we agree that a particular system sometimes produces results that we both agree are unfair, that doesn’t mean that a proposed redress wouldn’t produce even more unfairness.

To make an analogy, the requirement in modern criminal justice systems that the prosecution establish guilt beyond some standard of evidence leads to some results where people are factually guilty of crimes, but the case against them cannot be proved, and the guilty person goes free. That’s certainly unfair. But changing the burden of proof would result in even more unfairness.

You can’t just assert that capitalism is unfair without proposing some other method of allocating scarce resources that would be superior. And then we can argue over whether that change would be more or less likely to produce more or less unfairness, depending on our personal opinions and biases. Otherwise you’re just complaining that it’s unfair that you get wet when you walk in the rain. Maybe it is, but who’s going to solve the problem for you? God? God doesn’t seem likely to address the problem for you, so what’s the alternative?

Slavery may be bad for the overall economy, but if it benefits the slave owners then they’ll still do it.

A capitalist will sell you an umbrella.

This is kind of an odd requirement. Who says that “having the most money” is “winning”? In the real world, people collect money as a means to an end. The end is whatever they like. Just because Bill Gates has billions of dollars that doesn’t mean he’s winning. And no player in real life has an insurmountable lead over everyone else, Steve Job’s billions didn’t make him immortal. In the real world the human condition will never end until human beings are extinct.

Yes, but what makes a “slave owner” a “slave owner”? To really own a slave it requires the rest of us to agree that this person is your property. If we don’t agree you’re just a criminal who keeps people locked in your basement. Just because I’d be happy to be able to force you to work for me at literal gunpoint doesn’t mean the rest of America required to allow me to get away with it.

Slavery requires a legal system that either cooperates with me to force you to work for me, or at least gives me impunity while I privately coerce you. If you’re my slave and you run away, what happens when I get out my gun and track you down and force you back to the fields? Do I get charged with assault or kidnapping? Do the cops help me find you and put you back to work or do they arrest me?

Yes, of course. Either the government permits slavery (and backs up your rights to protect and hold slaves as any other property) or it doesn’t.

My point was just that Shodan’s cite about slavery being bad for the overall economy doesn’t really prove much. I mean, the whole free-market idea is that everybody pursues their own self interest, right? If someone can turn a profit by owning a slave, he’ll do it. And if there’s enough profit in it then he’ll use what measures he can within the political arena to make sure it stays legal.