enipla, “obviously” is probably the wrong word to use there. I have been off-roading, I have seen pictures of my friend from work off-roading, I have known two friends that enjoyed off-roading… though, I admit, I have not written a definitive article in an accredited scientific journal like “Car and Driver” on the matter.
SUVs serve no purpose that wasn’t already handled by the market, and in fact often are low quality substitutes for vehicles that they are apparently supplanting. They have less room than trucks, minivans, and especially vans; they don’t handle like sedans no matter how much drivers insist they do and try to drive like it; and, they can’t match off-roading like a Wrangler or a Land Rover. So basically we take the three things most touted about as “plusses” for the SUV, scale down their effectiveness, and sell it for an outrageous price.
Well, hey, we already knew that the “rational choice consumer” hypothesis was bunk. I guess no one should be surprised.
I agree and disagree. They are a heck of a lot less tough than say a good old K5 Blazer or 1970 Bronco. This really is too bad. You really can’t by a good off road machine anymore. Even the Wrangler has become ‘citified’.
However, my '93 Pathfinder and my wife’s '02 Grand Jeep are still pretty tough (they still use a solid axles on the Jeep). And they suit my wife’s and my purpose just fine. I used to have a '84 CJ7 and it did fine as far as 4-wheel drive in the snow, although it was a little squirrelly. Long trips in it sucked. And frankly, my dog was afraid to ride in it (soft top).
Juanita, I don’t know what I’d call it. Not familiar with the vehicle. Sorry.
I’d more or less consider a Land Rover to be an SUV, too, except that the context in which I’ve seen them was for use as an off-road vehicle, so in that sense it serves its purpose.
SUVs are way too common and I feel unsafe around them. One of them might hit my SUV and then who knows what might happen? I might get hurt!
I want to drive a Leopard Tank . It has all the room I need and I can feel safe inside it. Any SUV that I might inadvertantly collide with will barely scratch my armoury. I might not even feel the impact, you can become pretty detached from what’s going on outside in one of these things!
Of course, they might be left looking like the filling in a steel sandwich, but let’s face it, if they cared enough for their own family’s safety they’d have their own tank and there wouldn’t be any problem. In fact, I secretly suspect anyone who doesn’t own a tank obviously places money over the safety of their loved ones. So it’s not me that’s being selfish, it’s them. Or maybe they’re poor. Whatever, they shouldn’t be out on the roads with the big boys if they can’t take the knocks.
Sure, I might take up more space on the road and car-park, but I’m not paying for it by the square foot, so what do I care? It’ll also mean, in the extremely rare occasions I’m not urban driving, I can drive where-ever the hell I like, never mind the damage I might cause ploughing over exposed land in my tons of metal. I also won’t get stuck in the ruts that SUVs have left there before me.
I’ll be safe, cosy, secure, oh, and have a big gun. How can anyone have a problem with this?
SUVs are not low quality. If you would read what I said earlier you’d understand this by now.
I don’t know how you can say they have less room then a van or a minivan. You say a truck? What kind of truck? Flatbed pickup? Yes they will probably carry some things that an SUV won’t, but really not much more. They also lack the ability to comfortably carry a few people.
You say SUVs don’t off road well? OK, you obviously never have driven in one, or even been in one.
You probably feel too guilty about polluting the environment, oh don’t forget if you get in an accident, you DO want everyone involved in it to have an equal fair outcome :rolleyes:.
About comparing an SUV to a full size van. WTF is your argument now? They are the same size, both have big EVIL polluting engines, and will smash your POS compact car to hell in an accident.
Not quite true. You see, if my (as you so graciously put it) POS compact car is hit by a Mini Van, the tendency will be for this heavier vehicle to push my smaller car. On the other hand (because it is so much higher) if a SUV hits my small car, the tendency will be for it to drive over the top of my car and crush me in to something that will need a DNA analysis to verify that it was human once.
I didn’t say they themselves. I said they did compared to other vehicles designed to perform similar tasks.
Because they don’t. Their cab ceiling is about as high (if not shorter), but the floor is higher up.
Yeah, obviously. :rolleyes:
For someone who accuses me of not reading their posts, you must have not read my posts.
Pretty much. We all use the same roads, we are all (pretty much) statistically as likely to have an accident (even if it isn’t “our fault”) with other vehicles… seems reasonable to me. But, this isn’t really my problem with SUVs. In fact, I don’t recall mentioning this once.
My piece of shit compact car? Um, ok… Again, I made no mention of accidents whatsoever, and have made several posts to this thread already detailing my issues with them.
One final concern I have is the conspicuous consumption of gasoline, but I hold this against more vehicles than just SUVs so I didn’t really mention it.
Care to make any other assumptions about me? The only thing I have said about SUV owners is that they (the owners) often drive their vehicles in a manner that does not fit their (the vehicles’) abilities; ie- cutting into traffic and thinking they can accellerate well, weaving in and out of traffic seemingly ignoring the bulkiness of their vehicle, and I think that about covers it.
Own an SUV. Be happy. I just think it is a poor choice of vehicle for as popular as they are, and rarely are purchased to be anything more than a mini-van without a squashed nose. I’d be happier if they were gone, but I am not going to do much about it. Well, not yet, anyway… I am still considering a form of urban warfare. Just haven’t found a model which applies well to this class of vehicle.
I wasn’t singling you out. Just using you as an example :). My post was directed mostly at people here who are making ridiculous comments and suggestions, not to say you aren’t.
Saying a minivan can hold just as much as an SUV is completely untrue. Not just in volume, but also in weight. A minivan has a TINY towing capacity compared to a SUV. Mostly because (yet again) it comes down to their design and the way they are built.
I don’t often see big SUVs swerving in and out of traffic and causing accidents. Normally the cars I see doing that are dumb kids in their riced out (and previously owned by parents) compacts. But yes, an SUV won’t do this very well and probably will end up in trouble eventually if it is attempted.
For what it matters, I myself don’t own an SUV. Probably won’t unless someday I have a big family. IF I do someday I will take an SUV over a minivan in a second.
OK, unless there is some sort of secret van out there that I have yet to see or encounter, my sentiment hold. SUV’s are simply higher off of the ground (hell that has been a selling point in many a commercial that I have seen). The fact remains that if a car that is significantly higher off of the ground hits one that is lower, the tendency will be for the higher car to try to “drive over” the lower one.
On a personal note ** Mesopotamis**, I am wondering if you own an SUV and are feeling defensive or guilty about it. I ask this because it seems that you have been deliberately missing the point (or at least the gestalt) of my posts and that of others.
Finally, for a lighter look at this issue, you look here.
Guess I just don’t see this as a problem where I live and visit. Also, my wife’s Grand Jeep Cherokee is a rocket. I mean it. I bet it could smoke the tires (I’m dying to try).
So I guess I just have to say I don’t buy your argument. I just don’t witness this kind of behavior. Maybe it’s a regional thing.
JuanitaTech, I love your taste in vehicles! Mine is a Disco II. Actually, we have two, and I am prepared for the flames!
And actually, the Land Rover Discovery (both series I & II) is pretty small, as SUVs go nowadays. Not a hell of a lot of room inside, although the cargo area is good-sized.
I drive it because I love it. It’s big and safe (for me and my passengers) and fun to drive. I do not drive like a maniac. I do off-road sometimes, but for those of you who don’t- what you see on TV is not responsible off-road driving, it’s a commercial aimed at men in their 20’s.
As for erratic drivers in my area- it is mostly small sporty cars with young drivers who do the instant lane-changes, etc. But I am in SoCal, so that might not be the case everywhere.
There are shitty drivers in every type of vehicle. So I’m more conspicuous? Is that an argument against my car, that if I drive poorly, more people will notice?!?
Why do I need an SUV? Without going into the deep meaning of “need”, we have two kids with maybe another coming soon, we lug lots of stuff in our Disco, and we have Newfoundland dogs, which average about 150 lbs and won’t be fitting into a Honda anytime soon.
So, I guess the bottom line is that I’m selfish, anti-safety and anti-environment for my choice. Wow. I really don’t feel that way, but you have a right to your views.
Given the extra gasoline they consume and the extra smog they put out, perhaps a more appropriate punishment would be to have the excessive taxes go towards subsidizing alternate-fuel vehicles and/or hybrid vehicles.
Actually, there appears to be a proposition in the California assembly to levy additional taxes and/or charges on people who buy SUVs, minivans, and light trucks. I don’t know the details, but I know the bill exists, because the auto industry is already running a bunch of “oppose this bill” radio ads.
Me, I say more power to 'em. If they’re gonna tear up the roads and pollute the air at a greater rate, make 'em pay for it.
For those who question cargo carrying capacity of SUVs vs. minivans, I headed over to Edmunds.com and ran a quick comparison. I chose Jeep Cherokee and Honda Odyssey. Your results would change iif you choose different models.
Luggage capacity:
Jeep 39 cu. ft. Honda 38.1 cu. ft.
Max. Cargo capacity:
Jeep 72 cu. ft. Honda 146 cu. ft.
Max seating:
Jeep 5 Honda 7
I am not certain, but I believe the initial luggage capacity numbers are with all seats up. So while Jeep has .9 cu. ft. more, in that configuration it can seat 2 fewer.
I readily grant that someone who tows frequently needs a heavier duty vehicle. Next couple of times I drive I’ll make mental note of how many SUVs I see have trailer hitches.
Oh - and EJsGirl - we were talking about digs. You’d better get yourself a horse trailer!
Next thread, the relative ethics of owning Chihuahuas vs. Newfies. Did you see the size of that pile?!
All I have to say on the subject is: People - if you feel you absolutely MUST drive one of these monstrosities, at least have the common decency not to park it in the space marked “Compact”. Sometimes I wonder if vehicle size is inversely proportional to I.Q.
A full size van is pretty high off the ground. It will also weigh in close to the same.
Cars being “ran over” by SUVs isn’t really a problem. Even if it did happen (which I highly doubt) it wouldn’t crush the car like your thinking. Yes, if you get smacked by an SUV and your in a small car, your not going to come out well whatever the case. Your the one who chooses to drive a small car. Figure it out, there are downsides to a compact car. If anything happens to you because someone else chooses to drive a LARGE car. Its your fault, not the person who’s driving the bigger car. The solution isn’t to make everyone drive small car, or big cars. Its a choice you make.
Only you make the choice to decide what type of auto to drive. I haven’t heard people who drive motorcycles bitching because they feel unsafe around cars. Have you? Do you think they have a logical argument?
Its almost like some people have the idea that they are never at fault. This is the real world, grow up! You make your own decisions.
Now about that link with people “tagging” SUVs with liberal BS bumper stickers. That REALLY pisses me off. If someone ever did that to my car and I caught them. They would get the shit beat out of them and a bumper sticker stuck to their face.
Just haven’t found a model which applies well to this class of vehicle.