Fact: There is strong evidence humans are a contributing factor to global warming.
My opinion: dependence on oil has resulted in wars, corruption, and lethal air.
On a road trip yesterday, I started playing a count the SUV’s game. I got bored once I hit 50. My gripe about SUV’s is not only based on environmental factors, it’s based on my experiences as a driver and almost being mowed over by a SUV or being able to count the nose hairs of the SUV driver behind me. Somehow SUV’s seem to encourage road rage/reckless driving.
I know SUVs are cooler family cars than minivans or station wagons but seriously, do families need four wheel drive and 19.3 mpg? Unless you’re living in the Rockies, my guess is no.
If you’re asserting that certain types of vehicle should not be allowed, why stop at SUVs? Why not insist that everybody drives the smallest, cleanest, most economical, vehicle? It seems the only equitable alternative to letting people make their own choices.
Um, I’m sorry I guess I should have made it more clear.
Why are SUV’s so popular considering how much harm they do?
What is a viable solution to the current crisis?
My answer to #1 is that a typical American is lazy and likes to show off how much money he/she makes. Or has their head so far up their butts that they don’t even notice the SUV they drive costs them thousands in gas.
#2 is a trickier question because it treads into the same free-will waters that the cigarette industry is mired in. Put a warning? Pay millions of dollars in lawsuits? Have society make it so hard on the consumer that it wouldn’t be worth it to purchase item? I’m loathe to push for federal mandates because the federal government should clean up their own backyard before they regulate our vehicles.
I don’t know that SUVs or other vehicles that use a lot of fuel should be so hard on the consumer that they would be impossible to purchase, but it should be penalized in some way. For example, they should be registered and taxed the same way a truck is. Alternatively, if they are to be registered and taxed as passenger cars, they should have to meet the same pollution emission and fuel consumption standards as ordinary passenger cars.
There are other things we need (or want) that we pay extra for. People who need specialized shoes, clothing, etc. for either physical adaptations, occupational or recreational purposes often pay more than average for them. If it’s a bone fide business need, then I would assume normal business accounting would process the extra cost appropriately.
IMHO people don’t “need” these things because they have 2 kids to take to soccer practice; somehow for decades before SUVs existed kids got to sporting practices just fine. But if you want a truck, pay for it like a truck.
Oh, and I hear there is legislation pending to lower the maximum height allowed for headlights. I sure hope this gets done, because I am darn tired of being blinded by the $#&^&*% glare.
Rather inane title. I wasn’t aware that choosing to drive a Jeep was a religious issue. I’m pretty sure Jesus would say not to judge others as lazy showoffs lest ye be judged yourself.
I’m not trying to show off how much money I make by driving a Cherokee. For crying out loud, I work at frickin’ Staples. The retail workers who want to show off how much money they supposedly have drive riced-out Hondas.
I don’t spend much more on gas than my friend who drives an '88 Ford. She gets 22mpg, I get 20mpg. If we both drove 300 miles, and then stopped to refuel, I would buy 15 gallons and she would buy almost 14.
My usual gas-up is 14 gallons, give or take .2, and I get gas approximately three times per month. That works out to about 500 gallons of gasoline a year.
Her usual gas-up is 12 gallons, and she gets gas once a week. That’s 576 gallons a year.
But I am the EVIL SUV OWNER WHO IS LAZY AND FAT AND GREEDY AND MUST DIE OH NO
Well, you had a bad experience with an SUV driver and you want to ban them. That’s not how you make public policy. I hate it when someone is yakking on a cell phone next to me in line at the grocery store. People can be jerks. You can’t legislate against that.
I would not oppose the setting of exhaust standards, but legislating how you get there (ie, banning certain vehicles) is not the way to go. There is no reason not to let people make their own choices, within the context of meeting whatever environmental standards we agree as a society to set.
1. Why are SUV’s so popular considering how much harm they do?
I think it’s a combination of trendiness and perceived safety.
Trendiness is easy to document: everyone else seems to have a big car, so you want one too, to fit in. Also, there’s a notion that the larger size of an SUV means more interior room, which means more comfort and luxury.
As for safety … my wife and I are currently in the beginning stages of pondering our next vehicle – we just paid off a Toyota Camry, and my Acura Integra’s pushing 13+ years as it is. Despite my warnings about the dangers of SUV rollovers, she is strongly in favor of getting an SUV, partially because of the perception that SUVs are stronger 'n safer than a sedan. Also, there’s a bit of an arms race going on: “I want a taller car because I have a hard time seeing around all the other big cars on the road.”
Not sure what a viable solution is, but I’m trying to talk her into a more fuel-efficient minivan instead.
On the plus side, my brother recently got himself a new Honda Civic Hybrid (gas/electric), which has a great blend of comfort and fuel efficiency. Now if only they can bring the price down…
In both states I have lived in my SUV WAS taxed and registered just the same as a car. Actual pick-up trucks were given a better pricing for registration, and the taxes were lower as the vehicle sale price was usually lower as well.
I live in the midwest where we like to fish, hunt and drive when there is 4+ inches of snow on the ground, while carrying 2 kids, 2 dogs, and gear for everyone. No car that will excell in the emissions department will fit my requirements today. The econobox that gets 50mpg may be great for the guy that drives 60 miles to work one way, but how much emmisions does he put out in his 120 mile round trip compared to my 10 mile round trip?
I am penalized enough by the low MPG my SUV gets. I have to buy more gas than others, thereby paying more road taxes than others. How much more do I get to be penalized in your world?
I read some of the articles referenced in your OP, and there are some interesting things there. One guy says he’s not going to ride his bike to work any more because he got run down by a car. Doesn’t say what kind of car.
Then there’s this: “An international team has found continental shelves in wet tropics areas are releasing carbon as a greenhouse gas.” Sounds like they’re saying the creation of greenhouse gases is a natural process, and something we haven’t been measuring at all accurately.
So, to your questions:
Why are SUV’s so popular considering how much harm they do?
Cite? How much harm DO they do, exactly?
My guess as to why they’re popular is that they’re big, comfortable vehicles that can tow a trailer or drive through the snow more readily than smaller passenger cars. I realize that the majority of states tend not to have much need for driving through snow, but all the hubbub I’ve seen from people who want to ban SUV’s amounts to banning them from everybody, even if they have a perfectly valid need for them.
What is a viable solution to the current crisis?
Crisis? Which crisis would that be, exactly? Global warming? The kind that’s caused by the environment? Hole in the ozone? The kind that’s caused by hydrogen leaking from fuel cells? What?
#1 The title is from an anti-SUV campaign slogan from earlier this year. I used it because I think it’s funny in a stupid kind of way. Personally, I think Jesus would drive a VW van. It would fit his crucifix.
#2 I didn’t bring up this debate only due to personal experiences with crazy SUV drivers. This has been a political issue for years. I brought this up because there is proposed and actual legislation being pushed through at the state and federal level. Bush’s new tax credit, gives financial relief to SUV drivers and in California a lobby is pushing for the state to ban SUV’s for state workers.
Just think of me as an SUV heathen who wants to debate a SUV Christian. Who actually needs SUVs? Housewifes? Hockey coaches? Just seeking enlightenment.
Who actually NEEDS any particular type of car - or any car at all? You can make the argument that EVERY SINGLE CAR ON THE ROAD is completely unneccessary.
I have an SUV because I like to haul large things - I often go yard-saling and I shop at antiques stores and flea markets. I chose an SUV over a pickup truck because the SUV has a cover on it to prevent things from getting ruined by weather, the cargo area on an SUV is much more easily secured from theft than the open bed of a pickup truck, SUVs are easier to back up in for me because you can actually see the back of the truck in your rear-view mirror (which you can’t in my father’s pickup, as the rear window is smaller than that in my Jeep and there’s no point of reference for the location of the tailgate), and the SUV has more passenger room and a more comfortable cab. I chose an SUV over a car because of the cargo capacity.
Good enough for you? Geez.
I don’t think SUVs should be treated any differently - for better or worse - than other trucks or cars. Hold them to standards for safety and pollution, tax them at the same rates, etc. But don’t go arguing that nobody “needs” such and such a model or such and such a make because that’s just stupid. Nobody “needs” ANY particular car make or model.
The amount of fuel a SUV uses is a bit of a red herring in the whole debate. And so are comparisons to other large vehicles.
I dislike SUV because they are over-sized, take up more of the road, block the line of sight for other drivers and encourage a careless, I-feel-safe-and-protected-who-cares-about-others attitude to driving. The fact is most SUV drivers don’t need a vehicle that size and their desire for them is entirely selfish.
So I say tax private vehicles by volume. The way I see it is space on public roads is public property, so if you want to occupy larger areas of it for your own personal use, then you pay a larger rent. Seems fair to me, it’s the same principle if you want to the room of flying business class, you pay more.
And no, the fact the SUV owner has already paid more for their vehicle doesn’t count. You’ve still to pay for the road you’re filling and that’s not for sale. Nor do we care if you’re already shelling out on fuel, you bought the SUV, its upkeep is your problem.
Then we’d find just how many people really need them.
High and Mighty: SUVs–The World’s Most Dangerous Vehicles and How They Got That Way
According to this book, your last sentence is key. SUVs are being sold as alternatives to cars, yet they are regulated as trucks. Due to the lobbying power of SUV manufacturers, a loophole exists in the law that allows SUVs to be exempt from the much more strict regulations for passenger cars. So when people say they don’t want regulations getting in the way of their choices, they are forgetting that cars already ARE regulated. In the 70’s and 80’s, it wasn’t much of a problem, because trucks and SUVs were a much smaller percentage of the total vehicles on the road. But now we’re getting to the point where SUVs are becoming as prevalent as cars. Average fuel-economy standards apply to manufacturers, but are lower for cars than they are for trucks. Since lobbyists have managed to keep SUVs under the truck standard, we have the absurd situation that manufacturers are actually encouraged to build SUVs rather than large-size cars, because the poor fuel economy of SUVs does not affect the average for the cars they build, and still allows them to meet federal standards.
Another absurdity is that although SUVs tend to decimate passenger cars in collisions, they are much more prone to rollovers, and therefore no safer than cars. So although SUV drivers are not making themselves any safer, they are making things much more dangerous for everyone else.
The solution is not to ban SUVs altogether, but to make SUVs subject to the same regulations as passenger cars. Those who believe that all regulations are inherently evil are ignoring the dramatic improvements in air quality and fuel efficiency in the last 50 years that were brought about by government regulation.
And on preview, I like Futile Gesture’s idea of taxing by volume.
Just FYI, you might want to post “lighter” thoughts (like who needs to drive an SUV) in one of the other forums, such as IMHO. People here tend to like to debate meaty subjects. If you really want to post in GD, you might try something like these to get attention:
Are SUVs actually safer than passenger cars?
Should SUVs be treated as passenger cars or light trucks?
What would Jesus drive?
That last one might actually be a debate, although I think it was already done no too long ago. You can always do a search to find out.
Jesus, being a carpenter, would probably drive a 1-ton Dodge crewcab dually 4x4 pickup with a diesel engine.
I drive a '92 F150 that gets worse gas mileage than most modern SUVs (15mpg), but since it’s a pickup, I’m less evil?
My dream car is a '65 Mercury with a monstrous big V8 that gets 9mpg on a good day and has no emissions controls whatsoever, but since it’s a car, it’s less evil than racinchikki’s glorified minivan!
Speaking of minivans, the '95 Windstar my mom used to have got worse gas mileage than racinchikki’s Jeep.
