But you do realize that the vast majority of SUV owners never take them off-road, don’t you?
Yes, here it’s registered and taxed as a car is, also. But IIRC, a truck would have a higher registration fee in NJ. But as blowero noted below, the SUV doesn’t have to meet the fuel economy and clean air standards that a car does, which are more stringent than trucks. So the SUV is paying the lower registration and taxes of a passenger car, while adhering to the lower economy and pollution standards of a truck, getting the breaks two ways.
BTW, I have absolutely no philosophical or other problem with SUVs and other trucks when they are used for purposes like yours, or for employment-related activities. We own an old pickup truck. My husband uses it because he likes to do auto mechanics and carpentry stuff as a hobby. It’s come in handy when someone in the family is moving or if we want to avoid delivery charges on something. My sister used to have one, too, when she owned a horse (yes, there are horses in NJ) and needed to transport various gear and supplies regularly, sometimes off-road.
What gripes me is all the SUVs I see in the parking deck where I work. About a third of the vehicles hardly fit in the parking space lines, and I would not be surprised if 99.9% of them are used to transport one skinny office worker across perfectly good paved roads from one town to another. Their headlights blind me at night, they impede my ability to see what’s up ahead on the road, and they make no sense for what they’re being used for!
I don’t think anyone is saying SUV owners are evil people, or that the SUVs should be banned. The comparison between an SUV and an older (possibly older and huger) car is valid. We have an old classic Chevy, too. It gets probably 10 MPG and needs high-test (it really wants leaded) gas. Obviously it is rarely driven except to show off on a special occasion. But for everyday driving my Passat averages 30 MPG, and that’s got to be polluting less than any SUV and conserving resources.
As I said before, what I’d want is (1) lower the dam headlights and (2) either tax and regulate as a car or tax and regulate as a truck; no halfway measures.
Well, the SUV Rollover Hypothesis (ha! how’s that for a phrase?) is only of interest if SUVs actually do roll over significantly more often than cars, under actual driving conditions. I do not know whether this is so or not?
Yes, I like that one too!
Why drive an SUV? In no particular order, and repeat repeat repeating some others in this thread:
- Convenient luggage / people hauling ability,
- Perceived safety factor (at least in collisions with standard cars),
- Large vehicle -> larger status symbol,
- Trendiness,
- 4WD / offroad ability,
- Comfort
- Durability.
Why not drive an SUV?
- Relatively poor MPG,
- Relatively poor handling,
- They are more difficult to drive than a car, and the average person may not be capable of driving an SUV as well as they could drive a car,
- Generally worse blind spots,
- Large size can block the line of sight of other motorists,
- Perceived safety may alter the SUV driver’s attitude toward other motorists (i.e., SUV drivers might behave more recklessly),
- Faster wear of some consumables (e.g., tyres).
Some of these factors apply to standard cars (e.g., poor MPG for sports cars).
TBH, I think it’s possible that, on average, SUVs are driven less well than cars simply because SUVs require more skill and awareness to drive well. Recently I had my first ‘opportunity’ to drive one (a Buick Rendezvous) and I certainly felt the skill gap…! I think there’s a case for a license specifically to enable you to drive biggish SUVs. I also find it suprising that people who do not need SUVs drive 'em at all; I found the Excursion to be a really unedifying pile of tin, which was as slow as a snail nailed to a sloth, and which handled like a drunk pig on ice skates. It did work OK off road, mind. YMMV et al.
Anyway, hardly a ‘Great Debate’ … more like an aging horse, well whipped.
And? I don’t believe I commented on whether most people need them, just that people who do need them need them.
Since I don’t ride around with most people, I don’t know what they use their vehicles for. But since around here snowplows aren’t necessarily always out when they’re needed, and having a vehicle that you only use in the winter would be prohibitively expensive, I don’t grudge anyone making the best use of their dollars by buying one vehicle and having it be as multi-purpose as possible.
By the way, taking them “off-road” is hardly the issue. Keeping them on road is.
Julie
Some of the mpg figures here are making my hair stand on end; the only sensible and moral choice is for me to confiscate all of your petrochemicals; if necessary by prying them from your cold, dead hands.
SUVs (and large cars generally) are slightly less of a problem over here, but they are on the increase; I’d dearly love to be able to drive an economical little 2 seater that achieves up to 90mpg, but there’s an increasing chance that any accident I may have will involve a large SUV as the other vehicle - I’m not sure that I’m quite ready to become roadkill in the name of my green leanings - it is a situation that I can do little about except resent.
Subaru Outback or the equivilant. Fair+ gas milage, all-wheel drive, safe, fun, reliable.
Bad marketting. Despite Paul Hogan, it hasn’t been able to overcome it’s “wimp image”.
Nope. Most Minivans will do all that, and do it with slightly better gas milage, and greater safety. The features that differ a SUV from a minivan(truck body, 4 wheel drive, higher ground clearance) you have no need for.
So far, every person who has posted her on the SDMB a “need” for a SUv has been wrong. Now, sure, if you’re a lumberjack or a Ranger or something- fine. Few are. All-weather driving is done better by all-wheel drive. Carrying loads is done better by minivans & pick ups. Boldfaces list has only ONE thing that an SUV does better- “off road”. If you don’t go off road, you don’t need a true SUV. (Well, Ok, I am not counting the smaller, car-like “sport utilities” as true SUVs.) They are LESS comfortable, less durable (that 4DW tranny, etc is a bitch), and Minivans haul more stuff, better.
And SUV’s aren’t even all that safe . They run just slightly better than a regular compact car (not a subcompact, mind you) in overall safety. If you wanted a safe car, you’d drive a Volvo, not a Suburban. Yes, in some rare “lifeboat” cases, a big SUV is safer- but what dudes shoudl really care about is all-around safety , which includes accident avoidance in the first place. SUV are also not held to the same safety stds are cars. Just about every “big” car and esp those big foreign cars (Saab, Volvo, Mercedes) are all MUCH safer than a SUV. And they get better milage, too. Besides- have you seen the trunk on some of those fullsized autos? Damn, it can be bigger than the storage space on some SUVs…AND, your stuff isn’t out there in plain view for thieves to appraise first.
Many women drive an SUV thinking that they are safer- they aren’t.
Many men drive an SUV thinking that it’ll make their penis bigger- it won’t. 
Get Viagra instead guys, it’s a hell of a lot cheaper, and better for the environment.:wally
True, but Consumer Reports gives it great ratings- which for the thinking buyer…
(Note that the Saturn SUV isn’t too bad, if you must)
Interesting Observation:
Just got back from a week long trip to San Antonio. While I was there, I switched back and forth between a Mazda Protoge (underpowered, but killer handling) and a big Dodge Pickup (both newer models.) Normally, in southern California, I am extremely nervous when driving anywhere near the largest of the super ugly vehicles in my little subaru (SVX sits REAL low). In Texas, however, when 2 out of 3 vehicles is a big truck, I felt much safer in the Mazda than I did in the Pickup.
Why? I think less traffic, more alert drivers used to driving large vehicles, and more room to maneuver if something went wrong all played a part. I felt confident to drive my way out of most problems that could occur far outweighed the benefit of carrying around the extra mass.
In California traffic though, I may not have the space or warning to avoid some cell phone talkin makeup puttin on soccer mom who decides to wander into my lane. I think the lack of control is what really upsets me.
Also, having driven a 4WD GMC Tahoe this Christmas, I’m truly amazed anyone would choose a big SUV for safety in the snow. An AWD Subaru or Audi wagon will absolutely destroy any mega-suv in bad weather handling. (when was the last time you saw an SUV in a winter rally stage?)
So I guess I will change that trend.
You forgot low range 4x4 and towing ability. Something a Subaru doesn’t have.
High ground clearance in places that get a lot of snow makes a big, big difference. As does low range. I agree that not that many parts of the country get enough snow to really need that. But, what about the other things a larger car (bigger than a Subaru) can do as well?
That brings us to the mini-van. It’s not any easier to see around, doesn’t get much better mileage than a mid-size SUV and can’t tow. It’s a good people mover. Pull out the seats and it can haul stuff. That’s it.
Does everyone need one that buys one? Nope, does it do what they need it too? Sure. It’s a vehicle.
The anti-SUV crowd seems to see the SUV at the store, or commuting and assume the person dosen’t need it.
How often does a person need to use it to ‘need’ it?
Re SUV drivers are less safe - I just don’t see it. But I live in a county where most vehicles are 4x4s. It’s seems to me that the younger drivers are the less safe ones, comes with the territory.
We could tax them more. Where I live registration is based on value, depreciated over the years. Makes no sense. I think we should tax them based on weight, a heavy car does more damage to roads.
We have two cars. I commute using my '89 Honda and get between 35 and 40 miles per gallon, depending on weather conditions.
Our second car is an Isuzu Rodeo (yes, an SUV) which gets around 20 to 22 mpg. The Wife drives that one to work, and it is the vehicle we use when we are moving the girls around.
We had a minivan, but we blew out several parts of its drivetrain by towing one or another of our boats.
The Rodeo was the logical choice for us, given that we needed towing ability and room for five persons. I was looking at club cab pickups, but their prices were outrageous.
I do not feel that I need to justify owning the SUV. We need its towing ability at least once a week during the boating season, and there have been a few storms this winter where I could not have gotten to work with my Honda. I estimate that my average family mileage is well above normal.
Now, if we could just get all those women in the Navigators, BMW 40-thousand dollar monsters, and those Lexus tanks off the road, everything would be erfect…
So, what you’re saying is that people who need to haul things need a minivan and people who want to be safe need a Mercedes and people who want to drive in all weather need an AWD.
So, if they need all three, you’d advise them, I guess, to buy three vehicles instead of the one vehicle that does all three things.
Do you work for the car companies?
Julie
I’ll repeat – I have no quarrel with people who need SUVs to do the things that SUVs do well. OK, we’ll add towing to getting through deep snow, off-road capabilities, and other truck-like things. It also seems apparent to me that there are parts of the country where SUVs and other truck-like things are sensible. I would bet that drivers who are using them for towing and so forth probably know how to handle them appropriately. However, there are many, many people who get them for impractical reasons, have distorted ideas of what they can and cannot do, and who do not have the slightest idea of how to handle them safely. These people seem to be in the majority here in suburban and urban New Jersey, and they seem to use these very large and inefficient vehicles to transport one person over perfectly good roads. And I still maintain that it is not unreasonable that if you need a truck (for that is what most SUVs are), then you should pay the higher truck registration fees and taxes. The danger they pose to normal vehicles should be minimized where possible by requiring standard height headlights and bumpers.
You don’t need a Mercedes to be safe. It’s been noted before that SUVs are not necessarily safer for the occupants, and they are definitely not safe for the rest of the public. There are some excellent crash-resistant cars around that are neither luxurious or showy or expensive.
If you really need to haul things a lot and you need to drive in mud and snow, especially off-road, fine. Just be willing to pay the registration and taxes that a truck owner pays.
BTW, the best vehicle I ever had for all-weather driving was an old original VW bug. The thing was so light it would go over anything and never sink in. We used to use it to plow the driveway. But it was not safe; you could dent it by leaning on it too hard and was a death trap in a car. However, it is certainly possible to get traction control on normal cars, and it will be sufficient for normal circumstances.
You forgot to mention the camper shell and a rack for ladders.
And suburus are perfect for the kind of person who does their shopping out of Consumer Reports.
I remember reading a review they did of a Porsche, in which they gave it low marks for “trunk storage space”. I never heard of someone buying a two seater sports car based on trunk storage space.
Let’s face it, the car you drive is probably the biggest ad to the outside world of what kind of person you are. Many, many people have that as a key factor in their choice of cars. Car companies know this, and count on it.
Gas Mileage - Agree
All Wheel Drive, being better than 4wd - That is your opinion, and one we don’t share. I prefer 2wd when I don’t need 4wd thank you.
Safe - Safety is relative. If I get hit while driving an outback by full size SUV, I’m toast. If I get hit while driving my Tahoe, the odds are on my side. No offense to anyone else out there on the road, but I’ll stick with the odds in my favor on this one.
Fun - Maybe, I have found the outbacks that I rented to be cheap and “plasticky” feeling and very lacking in the power department.
Reliable - Again, we agree. Many friends have Subarus that have lasted what seems like ages compared to other vehicles.
Bottom line, DrDeth, telling everyone that they are wrong to own an SUV because another vehicle may perform better in a particular task is rather presumptuous isn’t it? The beauty thing about SUV’s is that they can do many things that one would otherwise need several seperate vehicles for. I’ll stick with my Tahoe, and the wife her mini-van. My decision is the right one for my family.
So, you’re admitting that full size SUVs are a clear and present danger to other drivers. Am I allowed to be upset with you for being a threat to my life?
If I get hit while walking along the street by a Mini Cooper, I’m toast. If I get hit while walking along the street by a kid riding a bike and I fall down and land wrong, I could break my neck and die. If I decide to buy a pair of roller skates and I fall down, I could break my neck and die. If I get hit while driving any car whatsoever and any OTHER car whatsoever hits me in the driver’s side door, I’m probably toast. Everything is dangerous in certain situations. Provided I drive safely and competently, I pose no more danger than any other person while on the road regardless of the vehicle I choose to pilot (unless, say, it has gigantic metal spikes that shoot out of the sides at random intervals, and intermittently fires deathbomb rays of lazer doom).
Yeah, you can be upset at me. Knock yourself out.
I should get a minivan? Minivans get better gas mileage? Not all of them - plus they are bigger, longer - I can’t parallel park in my mother’s minivan, it’s larger than my Jeep and has larger blind spots. I should get a pickup truck? Pickup trucks are better at hauling things, too? Did you read my reasons not to buy a pickup truck? I should shut up about wanting to tow things and drive on dirt roads (I live in a rural area, and it rains once in a while, believe it or not, and rain + dirt = mud) and just buy the smallest, most fuel-efficient thing ever because that’s what you want me to do because that’s what you want? What are you, some kind of pinko commie?
And don’t blame your so-called inability to get the tiny, great-mileage-getting vehicle of your choice on my decision to drive a Jeep. You make your own choices.