Okay, that made me laugh.
Alcoholics believe there is nothing bad about alcohol?
Really? Provide a cite for this, please. I beg to differ about the labeling part.
Also, you may want to rephrase that because the way you said it makes no sense. This is how you phrased it: no one tells not to drink in AA but AA wants you to stop drinking.
No, it does not.
AA does not teach that alcohol is “the devil”
What alcoholics believe is their own business.
Well, for one, there are no leaders in AA, so there is no one to tell you what you are. There is just a room full of people with the desire to stop drinking, sharing their experiences with alcohol.
AA does not tell anyone to stop drinking.
AA doesn’t “want” anyone to stop drinking.
AA has a way to quit drinking, if that is what you want.
Because one can have a drinking problem but not have the condition that some call a disease–alcoholism.
IOW, if you have a drinking problem you should get help with it. But be very careful who you get that help from. Many (most?) caregivers will be inclined to strongly suggest (insist, really) that you go to AA and that might not be the best form of help for you. Be sure to see someone who understands that people can have certain issues with alcohol that do not necessitate never drinking a single drop ever again.
Try to find a caregiver who is not a 12-Stepper themselves. Those practitioners are known as “two-hatters” because they are acting both as your caregiver and probably also as an active recruiter for AA at the same time (an inherent conflict of interest). NOTE: They would be an active recruiter only if they are diligently following the 12th step which is:
12) Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
(Italics mine)
You sure about that? Some people argue that AA is very similar to a religious cult. I’m sure there is a hierarchy of some kind. How about people who have been sober longer than others? Are more people willing to listen to people who have been sober longer than others? That would be an interesting study.
Really? Then what do they want? Tell me what they want people to do. I bet it doesn’t involve drinking.
Yes, I’ve already answered this. The way to quit drinking is via the 12 steps. The belief that the 12 steps will help someone stop drinking.
I’d like to see a cite for the claim that methadone maintenance has a great success rate-if administered “properly and monitored by officials”. What does “success rate” even mean? Success while being “properly administered and monitored”? Is this program of administration and monitoring of methadone meant to be a lifelong responsibility? Because the overall success rates of overcoming heroin addiction, with or without methadone maintenance, are abysmal at best.
I am an atheist, and I had no problem with it. The higher power thing does not have to be an omnipotent god, you know…
The most important person is the guy who makes the coffee. That is the the extent of the hierarchy.
Yes, because they are usually the ones who have been successful the longest. But even new people can be the source of wisdom that others will find useful. You take what works, and leave the rest. Don’t worry about the other guy’s program. What works for him, might not work for you, and vice versa. If anyone is judging you, they are not working the steps right.
They want to share their experiences with alcohol and how they are trying to quit drinking.
You seem to be hung up on what some imagined authority in AA wants people to do; in as much as there is any desired behavior, it is to share your experiences so that others may gain wisdom in their desire to quit drinking.
You are right about that, but for the wrong reason.
Yes, except the 12 steps are a way to quit drinking, not the only way. If you find a better, easier way, you will get nothing but good wishes from AA.
Fear Itself,
You have yet to show me any literature to back up your claims.
According to Bufe (1998), many people follow the 12 steps because it provides structure and the belief in the “Higher Power” helps many solve their problems. In reality, many people who have attended AA experience a radical religious conversion or change in personality. The fact that you didn’t experience one of those changes indicates to me that you are one of the rare exceptions. There are always exceptions.
Yes, that’s very funny, but I would like to see evidence of this. I have my doubts about your claims.
In addition to the 12 Steps, AA is founded on the Twelve Traditions.
Tradition Two states:
Tradition Nine states:
Why not attend a public AA meeting, and find out for yourself?
This is so funny, and so TRUE.
I am sure there are many people you come in contact who have been to AA meetings, yet you have no idea. AA is not the People’s Temple.
I do believe a “hell yeah” is in order here. 
Actually, I wasn’t interested in a recitation of the 12 steps. What I’m interested in is Oakminster statement that the disease model of alcoholism allows those with drinking problems to unburden themselves of any responsibility for their actions.
He prefers to apply “tough love,” which, he says, contrasts with the disease model by holding the alcoholic responsible for his actions instead of allowing him to shift blame to a disease, making himself faultless.
This is a similar approach to Oakminster’s –
So this is the thrust of my inquiry. Is it true that the disease model is intended to or effectively operates to remove any sense of responsibility for an alcoholic’s actions? If not, then why does there seem to be, on the part of some people, this attitude or reaction to the disease model?
It seems to me that people like Oakminster think that the disease model is letting alcoholics get away with something.
Literature says otherwise. Sorry, I’m more inclined to trust literature over an individual’s experience. People that are pro-AA saying that AA is not what literature claims it is will not convince me that there is no hidden agenda.
That only supports my claim that the Higher Power is God and there is a solid belief system.
I think it’s safe to say that you are posting for the sake of posting without even listening to my arguments and reading the cite that I have provided.
Have you ever been to an AA meeting?
Is he going to find something that differs greatly from the official AA publications if he does?
Of that I have no doubt.