And who is qualified to diagnose this incurable disease?
Doctors and patients, of course.
An untrained patient who has self-diagnosed her/himself as having an incurable disease goes to a support group of untrained amateurs who have done the same. Shouldn’t a trained professional of some sort or another be involved somewhere in this process?
It would have little impact on the outcome.
You’re forgetting that they have a Higher Power ultimately taking care of things. Can’t get more professional than that.
I have to admit I am having a hard time understanding this reluctance to discuss the actual premise of this thread.
I am reluctant to allow you to frame the the debate in such a way that your opinion is the only conclusion.
If you wish to start a debate on a topic other than the one stated in the OP, you are more than welcome to do so.
We have been through this before.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=582434&page=6&highlight=alcoholic
The scientific evidence appears to be that AA “works”, but there is no conclusive evidence that it “works” any better than other methods; and it would appear that it mostly “works” by providing a support network.
Cites:
I don’t think you are the sole arbiter of what the topic in the OP is, nor do you get to define what is or is not a disease.
I think the OP has already said what the topic of debate is, and I am willing to let trained professionals decide whether or not someone has a disease. Fair enough?
I reject that premise with respect to alcoholism, as well as for most mental illness.
Well, let me say that there are certain symptoms of the disease of alcohol abuse that do need medical diagnosis as well as medical intervention. Most of these occur towards the end zone of the alcoholic spectrum.
For instance, alcoholic cirrhosis. I’ve never met a lay person able to self diagnos this result of their drinking. Same with alcoholic dementia, Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome. There are many other end stage sequela I have not mentioned. These diagnoses are not left to lay person speculation.
It’s not difficult for a patient (or even a family member) to self-diagnose the fact that their life is chaotic, their personal and professional relationships are in ruins and that the most likely cause is their obsession with alcohol.
Other diseases?
Depression.
Many people will recognize there is “something wrong” with them.
They know they feel sad & depressed & hopeless.
And, many times they will self diagnose depression before seeing a physician.
They are usually correct, in my experience. But, a physician might ask the depression scale questions anyway. Mostly to determine the severity.
People might not even go see a physician, but look stuff up on sites like Web MD, and begin some simple life style treatments, such as exercise, etc.
If simple life style changes and self care actually make things better and the person improves, then how is that a bad thing?
On a personal note, my father in law died of alcoholic cirrhosis. He lived in denial of his alcoholism to the bitter end. A little “self diagnosis” on his part would have been a good thing. It’s called personal insight.
AA members self identify, they do not self diagnose.
Haha, what?! You are saying patients are able to diagnose?!
Haha, what?! You reject the premise that professionals cannot diagnose mental illnesses?!
This debate isn’t even logical anymore. People cannot admit when they are wrong and just continue to make up stuff… Nice.
Cite please? Are you going to keep providing anecdotal evidence or are you actually going to provide a cite?
What about people who don’t have insurance? Who can’t afford or don’t wish to go to a doctor to be diagnosed? What is the problem with AA as a self help group for people who want to help themselves?
Let us presume that NO ONE can diagnose alcoholism, unless what is referred to is chemical dependance on alcohol, which is easy to see- person has physical withdrawal symptoms without alcohol…
Presuming that, then it is all just people behaving well or poorly, and they can treat the symptoms or not, and it doesn’t matter whether they call it alcoholism, the attack of the pink elephants, or being thirsty for a poison- if they want to go to AA, and the people in AA want to tell them they are sick, or well, or not, who cares? If and until it happens to YOU as an individual, why do you care?
The OP cares, and has raised the question as to whether he should be labeled an alcoholic. Most people believe that if you have to ask the question, you probably have a problem. The OP doesn’t wish to believe this, and so far, the common trend seems to be that if he can live his life and drink, then cool, if he can’t then he should stop drinking.
In my experience, in the pages of the literature of AA, and in the testimony of people here, that is also what AA says; “If you can drink and live well, then that is great! If you can’t drink and live well, then you might be like us- and this is what worked for some of us.”
What is the problem that you are having with this?
Do you have a problem with someone self diagnosing schizophrenia because they are seeing and hearing things they know aren’t there?
Most psychiatrists will accept someone’s statements in regards to this. In fact, schizophrenia is diagnosed by asking people questions and giving them tests in which they tell the doctor what they think, see, hear, and believe.
In a sense, all mental illness is self-diagnosed, unless one gets into psychiatric states where communication isn’t possible…
Oh my word… If no one can diagnose alcoholism, alcoholism would not exist. C’mon now! :smack: If we presumed that, we wouldn’t even have a debate anymore.
WRONG. Mental illnesses are not self-diagnosed. If mental illnesses were all self-diagnosed, there would be no need for psychologists and psychiatrists. While you are at it, you might as well come up with an argument why we do not need psychologists and psychiatrists. I guarantee that if you start with the premise that all mental illnesses are self-diagnosed, you will be laughed at endlessly.
Okay. I will ask my PhD Psych wife to see if she wants to waste some time attempting to fight your ignorance, but I doubt she wants to spend her time that way.
What ignorance? You said that all mental illnesses are self-diagnosed? Prove it. No, I’d rather you take the time to actually find a cite to backup your claims.
No, I don’t want to hear what your wife has to say. I want to hear what you have to say. Spend time finding cites for a good debate. Do some research.
You do not debate by saying your wife has a PhD. What does that have to do with our debate?