I have.
I am waiting for you to intelligibly respond, or I will stop feeding you.
I agree with this.
And what, exactly, will the doctor do that would add value other than say ‘Yep, you are an alkie’? (Side note, I am not an amateur when it comes to alcoholism. I am a full on professional. I know more than any non alcoholic could ever know about the mental aspects of this disease. I also urge people who think they are alkies to talk to a doctor and psychologist/psychiatrist about their issues as well as finding a support group that works for them)
Mental diseases are different than physical diseases*. The symptoms of a heart attack (chest pain, shortness of breath, etc) do not necessarily mean that the patient had a heart attack. It requires a professional to check the persons actual heart to find out if the symptoms truly represent a heart attack. The doctor can see the actual physical damage or see the malfunction by testing.
However, the symptoms of alcoholism are different than those of a heart attack. The most important symptom of alcoholism, the need for the alcoholic to drink is not measurable without the patients involvement. You can make guesses based upon the persons behavior but there is no test a doc can run to prove someone is an alkie. Additionally, unlike the most of medical issues, the main actor in the recovery is the patient themselves. If someone has a heart attack, the doctors and nurses perform the actions required to fix the problem with little input from the patient. The patient plays a limited role, basically answering questions if they can. For alcoholics (and addicts or those suffering from depression and other mental illnesses) the main diagnosis has to be self administered. The person with the problem has to see that they have a problem and, hopefully, talk to someone about how to solve the problem.
Take depression for example. How can a doctor fix someone with depression without that persons assistance? And how can you treat a person who does not believe they have a problem? They can force feed medication but that is about it. It requires active participation on the patients behalf to treat depression. Same thing with many mental illnesses. It also requires the patient to honestly tell the doc what is going on. A heart attack or a broken leg, is easy to diagnose from the outside. How do you diagnose something from the outside when most of the symptoms are inside the patient and many are unreachable without the patients assistance?
Slee
*Evidence points to the disease of alcoholism having a physical cause in the way the body processes alcohol. The issue is that the symptoms of alcoholism are not physical, they are behavioral and emotional.
Have you BEEN to an AA meeting?
No one ever says:
“I am a diagnosed alcoholic.”
They say their first name, and if they want to, they say “alcoholic”.
As in:
“George. Alcoholic”.
Or:
“George. Double winner.”
Or:
“George. Grateful to be here.”
Or, simply:
“George.”
This is what I meant when I said people in an AA meeting self identify. Pretty much anyway they want to.
I was wondering…
Do you object to people making the self identification of a different problem requiring a different support group, such as Al-Anon?
Al-Anons only identify by first name.
Not self-diagnosed, I agree. But a diagnosis of a mental illness requires the subjective input of a patient more than does a physical one, by and large. It’s considerably more difficult (though not impossible, at least in all cases) to study the brain and the mind in the same way that we might take a blood test or ECG, and likewise to interpret the results. To a certain extent, you’re reliant on self-reporting, and of patients to accurately report their symptoms. Again, it’s not self-diagnosis, but by and large it’s more of a cooperative diagnosis than a physical illness might require.
There is no black/white answer to this question. IMHO at least - that depends on the severity of the condition combined with the risk of treatment.
Reasonable people self-diagnose themselves all the time, and prescribe treatment for themselves all the time. But this is generally only done when the self-prescribed treatment carries little or no health risk. In other words, I think it is “perfectly fine” for the untrained amateur to self-diagnose diseases AND prescribe their own treatment.
AA doesn’t have any harmful side-affects. I’m not risking my health when I diagnose myself as an alcoholic and prescribe AA as a treatment for my disease - that is, I’m not creating additional risks above what alcoholism creates in and of itself.
If I were to diagnose myself with a disease and attempt to prescribe myself a treatment which carries measurable health risks, that would be ill-advised. Additionally, I would be unlikely to obtain such treatment because such treatments usually require the use of drugs/procedures which can only be performed/prescribed legally by a licensed physician.
One could ask - what about someone who is a text-book alcoholic, who self-prescribes AA as treatment and that treatment fails - are they not harming themselves for not seeking/prescribing themselves a more effective treatment.
Yes - but that’s no different than how most people self-treat any disease. As in, I have all the classic symptoms of the common cold and I prescribe myself rest, fluids, and an OTC medication for my symptoms. My condition does not improve after several weeks. I can choose to seek a professional diagnosis/treatment or I can continue what I’m doing, or I can do nothing. A reasonable person would argue that not seeking professional assistance in that situation is not “perfectly fine,” though my initial self-diagnosis and treatment is justifiable and reasonable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkyvee View Post
AA members self identify, they do not self diagnose.
Book of AA - Forward to the First Edition:
“The only requirement for membership is an honest desire to stop drinking.”
Some members choose to self-identify/self-diagnose as alcoholics. Failure to do so does not exclude anyone from membership/attending AA. It is not a requirement to self-identify or self-diagnose themselves as alcoholics.
You should go to an AA meeting sometime… it happens all the time there.
Fuck. This is the same lame bullshit the True Believers always bring out-- “Only a doctor can diagnose cirrhosis or other clearly physical pathologies. BUT… when it comes to our special little ‘disease’, alcoholism, we laypeople are the sole arbiters of whether you have it or not. Doctors are not always able to diagnose it because it is a spiritual disease and only some of them have been indoctrinated.”
Look. Work your program if you work it, but do not pretend it is an effective strategy for dealing with drinking problems amongst the general public. It has been shown that is it less useful than nothing at all, so please let people get some real help and not get sucked into your bullshit, OK? If it works for you, then work it. But PLEASE stop trying to attract (cuz we all know you don’t promote) real people into your web of crazy. OK? 'Kay.
You can have it. Work it. Work those spiritual Steps! Just don’t EVER try to pass it off as useful to those who haven’t bought into the crazy, and STOP trying to pull them all in.
Been to thousands, and never seen it. Couldn’t care less whether or not YOU think you’re an alcoholic. But if you do think so, I’m there to help.
This seems exceedingly naive to me. As a one time single and trying-to-get-laid person, the answer is:
SCORE.
Patrons in a bar are much much much more likely to be up for being chatted up (or chatting you up!) than in a bar than a cafe or restaurant. Chatting people up in a bar is socially acceptable while the same action in a bar or restaurant would probably be considered tacky or a gaff.
Also, I have heard many negative things about AA in terms of them forcing people to acknowledge and surrender to a ‘higher power’. I have also heard/read that they take the tack of convincing you you are weak and powerless otherwise (rather than an empowering approach). YMMV, of course, and I might add I’ve never been to AA. I have read this time and time again, though. Perhaps considering an alternative abstinence program might be a better idea. At least look out for this ‘surrender to a higher power’ stuff if it’s unwelcome.