But without a working definition, it is next to useless.
I think there are lot of people who develop a drinking problem over time, and then stop because of family/work pressure, or some other external reason. By self-control, they don’t drink anymore, but they’re miserable, unhappy people–impossible to be around–because their brain has come to know only one way to be at ease: with alcohol. They can’t look forward to a drink anymore, and so their lives are sapped. Is that “cured”? I don’t know.
If an alcoholic is not really an alcoholic if they manage to control it later in their life, then a person cannot really be called an alcoholic until they die without successfully controlling the problem. By this definition, nobody posting on this board is currently an alcoholic.
I think that’s why a lot of AA people still call themselves alcoholic even when they stopped drinking a long time ago and are doing fine. In other words, alcoholism is not just the drinking. It’s the inability to drink at all without problems. When they say, “Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic,” it doesn’t mean they’re doomed to die in the gutter. It just means that the predisposition which prevents them from drinking doesn’t go away.
Sure they can. If that alcoholic who “has managed to control it” were to be unknowingly exposed to alcohol in the same way that a person with no history of alcoholism were to be; that alcohol would affect the alcoholic in a very different way than the non-alcoholic.
That still means that you cannot call someone an “alcoholic” until after they react differently. You aren’t currently drinking? I can’t call you an alcoholic until after you fall off the wagon.
So that’s like saying a person in remission doesn’t have cancer.
Can you put someone under the microscope and find the indicators that exist only in alcoholics? if so, we have both a working definition of “alcoholism” and a definition of “cure”.
This x 1000. AA, and other support programs teach alcoholics how to live “normally” minus the alcohol.
My experience with an alcoholic: It was glaringly obvious when he quit working the steps. He became miserable, nasty, vicious.
Not quite there yet, but definitely along the lines of what I’m looking for.
And why would that matter?
Is my life any more saved if science claims to be the savior?
“Alcoholism” is not a disease or a character flaw. It is a behavioral problem.
I put “alcoholism” in quotes because the term only has meaning if you accept the disease theory of problem drinking (which I as a layman, and many others who have a lot of training and experience in the substance abuse field, do not).
The proper terms for problem drinking are: alcohol dependance or alcohol abuse. These are two different things, and should be treated as such. Alcohol dependence would be most similar to alcoholism, but with at least one important difference.
A person can be alcohol dependent for a period of time and then at some point learn to modify their behavior so that that is no longer the case. Whereas the popular (AA) idea of alcoholism as a disease maintains that no amount of behavior modification can eliminate the disease.
This is something of a self-fulfilling prophesy because when someone who is alcohol dependent quits drinking and later is able to drink in moderation, 12-Steppers will simply say they never had the disease to begin with. (Which is true, in a sense, because no one has ever had the disease of alcoholism because it’s not a disease.)
Alcohol abuse is an acute, harmful consumption of alcohol. One needn’t be chronically dependent on alcohol to abuse it. Unfortunately, too many psychologists, therapists, and doctors consider the two different problems to be the same thing–a single disease (called alcoholism).
Even more unfortunate*, this (very large) subset of care-givers send you to a “one-size-fits-all” system called Alcoholics Anonymous. Which could be just the thing for some problem drinkers, but for many others is the wrong place to be. For example, some college kid who got waaaaay too fucked up and got in fistfights every weekend for a whole semester. Now obviously this is a serious problem. But it doesn’t necessarily mean the guys absolutely must never drink a single drop of booze ever again.
Yet, that is what is drilled into him at AA meeting. They only have one, single, answer to a multitude of very different situations.
*Unfortunate only in the sense that they are taking a large group of patients with different problems that call for different solutions and shoving them into one system with only one solution. I’m NOT saying it’s unfortunate because it’s AA, per se. It would be just as unfortunate if they sent all these different cases to SMART recovery or Rational Recovery.
Definitely a problem, but not necessarily alcoholic.
And that’s my gripe with the way substance abuse is treated today. When anyone has any problem with drinking they get sent to AA where they’re told “You must never drink again”. Which might be good advice for some, but not for others.
Indeed, the very thought of “never drinking again!?!?!” is enough to keep some folks from seeking help with their problem drinking. That is not a good thing.
AA is just right for some, I just wish the majority of the medical profession would stop recommending it to anyone and everyone who has any kind of drinking problem whatsoever.
Part of the frustration in diagnosing this type thing though (I would guess) is that the alcoholic patients will LIE and LIE some more to their physicians. They’re lying to themselves, their families, co-workers - everyone.
Many will lie right up until death. Sadly.
When you can’t get the truth and you have to guess, I suppose the one size fits all approach is about all you can do.
I don’t care one whit if it is labeled a “disease” or an “addiction” or a “compulsion”.
What I do care about is the fact that it is hell to live with an alcoholic who still wants to negotiate social drinking when they lack the ability to be a social drinker.
So what? Are they sober? Are their circumstances improving? Are they learning how to navigate life feeling actual emotions as a sober man/woman?
Why debate success?
Trouble is EXACTLY the point.
Once uncontrollable alcohol consumption has caused you, or yours, “trouble” you have just obligated yourself to stop drinking. Come to grips with that.
Binge drinkers who get into “trouble” are often highly functioning alcoholics. My husband, for example.
You want to be convinced you can drink sometimes? Right? That is every alcoholic’s dream.
My husband is sober 15.5 years. Yes, he’s in AA. He says his life has never been better. He is happy. He has more friends than he ever had before. He & I together attend huge non-alcoholic social gatherings where fun in abundance. He was a very high functioning alcoholic as well. Never got picked up by the law, only out of sheer dumb luck. But, his drinking was ruining my life and when I finally hit my “rock bottom”, I knew that if he made the decision to drink, he’d be doing his drinking not married to me. About this time he says to me: “OK. I will stop drinking.” My response was: “Not good enough. Either you go to AA and work it, or live somewhere else.” I was done, and I never make weak ultimatums. I do not consider this an ultimatum, in fact, I consider this a healthy self protective boundary of mine.
I just want to say to you, life is good without alcohol.
I am a “normie” married to a sober “alkie”. 30 years down the drain … 
You only think you need to feel a buzz to have fun.
Best of luck to you either way.
“I put “alcoholism” in quotes because the term only has meaning if you accept the disease theory of problem drinking (which I as a layman, and many others who have a lot of training and experience in the substance abuse field, do not).”
In your first post you claim the term “alcoholic” hold no meaning to you. But in your second post you contest someone else’s definiton of “alcoholic”. And you seem to imply a definition of what a alcoholic IS if I’m reading you correctly, although you don’t refer to the person as such. Don’t you suggest that there IS a certain segment of “alcohol dependent” and/or “alcohol abusers” who should never consume alcohol again? Wouldn’t you agree that a label “alcoholic” would suit this group?
Honestly? That I don’t know.
However, I think I CAN attest that it’s definitely a disease, as in a mental disorder. Telling someone, “well, just quit drinking!” is just about as useful as telling someone with depression to “just snap out of it!” or someone with OCD to “just stop washing your hands, there aren’t any germs!” It doesn’t work like that.
The whole, “well, no one’s FORCING someone to go to the store and buy booze!” is stupid and sounds like purposely misunderstanding the issue.
pinkyvee, I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I’m glad to hear your husband is well now.
I’ll agree with mental disorder. But are mental disorders diseases?
Alcoholism is becoming dependent on alcohol. It’s like having a drug addiction. An alcoholic becomes dependent on alcohol to deal with problems in life or to function. An alcoholic becomes mentally and physically dependent on alcohol. There’s no such thing as a functional alcoholic. The whole point of alcoholism is that the person is no longer functioning.