Well, the Spanish made a change. The Russians, not so much.
Germany v Spain. If Spain win, that will be a real shot in the arm for them. But then again, remember what Lineker said…
I think Villa going off was great for Spain in the end - how Fabregas isn’t in the starting lineup is beyond me. Apparently he and Iniesta are considered incompatible, but I’d take that incompatibility 7 days a week and twice on Sundays, thankyouverymuch. He opened up Torres, too, who I thought was unlucky not to come away with a reward (and unluckier still to get taken off yet again, which perplexes me). Spain’s depth in the front two thirds of the pitch is just ridiculous, though, isn’t it? Senna and Iniesta have been outstanding, and to have Fabregas and Alonso waiting on the bench would thrill any international team you could name. And as a Liverpool fan, I sincerely hope the stories linking us with Silva turn out to be true; not holding my breath, though.
A shame that Russia didn’t really turn up (anyone spot Arshavin?), but still, once Spain got moving they were in total control, and it was a pleasure to watch. Maybe not as exciting, but arguably much more quality on display than yesterday, where one team was profligate and another desperately lucky. I think the guy who emailed in to the Guardian’s minute-by-minute commentary to say this spoke a lot of truth re: the tournament’s perceived quality:
So, predictions for the final? If Germany play like they did against Turkey, Spain really ought to absolutely skin them. I just have this horrible sneaking feeling, though, that the Germans are going to nick it somehow. I really hope they don’t.
Now that I look at it, those stats that come across the bottom of the screen aren’t actually from ESPN, but from FIFA/UEFA or whatever international feed. I found the whole “passes completed” to be a kind of American football thing. “Possession %” I can make sense of, but why should I care how long a player has run or how many passes have been “completed.”
Yes, it makes sense that these are stats that are very useful to the people behind the sidelines where one inch or two can determine the champion from the runner-up but not much to a mope like me watching on my couch. The only thing I care about (or can understand 
) is how many goals were scored.
DeadBadger, by mistake I posted my views on most of those topics you mention in the other Euro thread.
In order not to spam I’ll just link to the post.
Let me know if that answers some of your questions.
As for taking out Torres, Aragones knows him as well as his own kids for he was the one that brought him up while coaching Atletico de Madrid at all of sixteen years old – thus the “El Niño” nick.
Honestly, I’m not much enamored of the Grumpy Old Man, but I have to say he’s moved his pieces flawlessly for the past two years. 21 undefeated matches and counting (an all-time record for us, as is his overall winning %) is hard to argue with.
Tony, fair enough. But will you please cheer us on on Sunday in exchange 
Totally disagree with you on this one. Tense? Not sure what game you watched because the one I saw was a footballing lesson from back to front. And I hardly think I’m alone in that view:
Euro 2008: Spain crush Russia to reach final
Scintillating Spain smash Russia in Euro 2008 semi-final
Classy Spain too good as Russia run out of steam in Euro 2008…and on and on and on.
Never mind linking to our own papers. 
On the negative side it looks like we’ve lost Villa for the Final.
FWIW, DSYoung’s post was made around half time, at which point it was an entirely reasonable view; the first half was a cagey affair, and a lot of the pundits were arguing that Russia would be best pleased with 0-0 at the break.
But yeah, I appreciate your post in the other thread, although I think Torres’s work is being somewhat undersold - had he been more selfish in Spain’s opener he could’ve had two goals, and this time he was just unlucky IMO (and his tireless running was just starting to pay dividends when he was taken off). No, he’s not scored a zillion goals, but he’s created a lot of space for others to run in to. I guess I’m just biased. Can’t hear a word said against beautiful beautiful Fernando. 
Anyway, here’s to the final. Hope it’s a cracker. 
The final should be a good one. Two well playing teams up against each-other.
And yes. The Germans do play well; just look at the combinations Podolski and Schweinsteiger have had… and Lahms goal against Turkey.
But like I said in the other thread. As long as it’s good - I’m please either way
(and RedFury, like we agreed on, Torres can do the winning goal )
Yes, it would have helped if I hadn’t been the only poster for the whole game. <sigh>
Second half, it is clear to me that Aragonés spent half-time telling the Spaniards that they didn’t need to worry about kamikaze Russians in attack, so simply go forward without worry and score. This, they did. Hiddink, unfortunately, didn’t manage to get the Russians to change in the second half. The result was a drubbing.
Wait til he transfers to Chelsea. Let’s see what you think, then. 
I must be weird, because when I’m not emotionally invested in a match I really enjoy watching defenders drawing a net around the attacking side, and I don’t see anything inherently wrong with a 0-0 draw as long as it’s not something dreadful as we saw in the France-Romania match the other day.
I really didn’t expect much from the first half, to be honest, and expected both sides to turn it on in the second - which is exactly what happened. Russia’s a good, pacy team but their defenders don’t quite have it.
I don’t really know why Torres isn’t performing as well with the Spanish side as he does with 'pool. I’m drawing similarities with Ronaldo, though - sort of a “give it to Mikey! He’ll eat it!” attitude - which doesn’t exist on the national teams as much as it does with the club sides.
Germany’s going to be tough, really tough. I think they’re going to give Spain a rough time, and with Villa out it’s going to be worse. I don’t think Ballack/Podolski/Schweinsteiger will be able to merrily trip through Spain’s mid- or backfield, which will put even more pressure on Torres et al. to produce.
I think there is one thing I can guarantee:
Schweinsteiger is NOT going to be able to make a diagonal run to the near post to meet a Podolski cross from the left unimpeded.
Agreed. Spain’s defenders are incredible, something that has been noted throughout the Euro 2008 campaign. The problem is that Germany’s defenders aren’t kindergarteners.
Because I’m stupid, I’m going to predict a final scoreline of 1-0. It won’t come from Ballack or Schweinsteiger because the Spain defenders will shut them down, and Podolski will produce some brilliant but unfinished crosses. Ditto to Spain - Torres won’t be able to pull it off simply because Spain’s midfield won’t be able to make space in Germany’s area. It’s going to come down to one of those incredible, “accidental” goals - that “holy SHIT did I see that?!” result, like Robben’s shot against France.
Of course, this is football at its finest. The Czechs will beat the Turks…oh, wait. France will kill Romania…well, ok, maybe Italy will do it. Germany will knock out Croatia, no doubt…
Who knows what is going to happen.
Oh I quite agree, I was just explaining the context of DSYoung’s post. And I think he was right about Spain in the first half, they didn’t look as free-flowing as they have at other times. 'Course I was just in and out of the room as I mistimed my celebratory “Spanish” chorizo and red wine stew, and thus only saw snippets of the first half. I think next time my cultural paraphenalia will be limited to a case of San Miguel.
Man, the stew was good, though. Chorizo is great.
First off, my late apologies to DSYoung for in my haste to respond to his post I did not look at the time-stamp on it – work has prevented me from apologizing earlier. I can understand how the first half might have appeared unappealing to a neutral and/or casual observer. However, I was and am, more inclined to look at it as chique did – difference being I am openly partisan, but I don’t think that immediately disqualifies me from being critical in my judgment. I simply thought it was a fine chess match in which the real 12th player (as opposed to us fans holding that honorary number) Aragones made the better opening moves than his counter, Hiddink. I do agree with DS when he mentions the talking-to he must have administered our players at the half: they could charge ahead in the second half for there wasn’t much to a surprisingly tiring Russian side. Thus I was rather expecting to see our Selección, live-up to its moniker (and the one I’ve carried for 18 years on the Internets), La Furia Roja. 'cept it has now been shortened to a simpler “La Roja” and rightly so I think, for it’s been a long time since Spanish football played with fury rather than skill and touches of artistry. Might ask for a name change myself if we reach the skies on Sunday…
Moving on.
DeadBadger, believe you me I too love Fernando’s sheer class and multitude of skills – I think if he keeps at it not many that follow him would be surprised to watch him become the world’s best striker. And that’s saying a quite the spoonful as you well know. That said, here I also have to agree with chique. Meaning that Luis has finally gotten us to play as a National Team and not a collective of individual talents…which is what we had been doing for decades to the utter frustration of anyone that feels any kinship with our squad. Thus in that vein he saw what was plain to see: it wasn’t Torres’s day. Difference being that he did what no other coach had dared do before him, take perhaps our most marketable player (deservedly so, mind you) out. The horror! some might have thought. Not me though. Gruff as he is, he has already earned a berth in our footballing lore as the best manager we’ve ever had. And if the players trust him and the results back him, who am I to criticize his moves? Makes no sense to do so! I mean look at the result, Guiza comes in, and bang! scores and basically puts the match away three minutes after the fact from an artistic assist from Cesc. :eek: Thank you England and Barca!
Case closed methinks.
Would that I had more time to bore you all with more comments, but to your benefit, I don’t. So I’ll end this post by saying that Sergio Ramos’ resurgence in the back after being much criticized for his start, has made us as good a team as we’ve ever had front to back. If that’s not enough to beat the Mighty Germans, so be it – though I think impossible is nothing® at this point and so do most other Spanish footie fans I’ll be sharing the broadcast with on Sunday. A feeling that is expressed, with caution and respect, from inside the very locker room. In any event, I know I’ll always treasure what they’ve already given us: juntos, podemos (together, we can) for I think from now on that’s the spirit and attitude that La Roja will carry with it.
We are no longer “just” a dream…
®Courtesy of Adidas, our official German sponsors/suppliers.
*Make that BARÇA with the cedilla as it should be from respect. Sorry I missed the edit window.
That’s ok, I understood what happened right away.
[emphasis added)
Yes, it seemed to me that Russia were tired, especially in the second half. I don’t know if this was from being dispirited or truly tired. I have a hard job understanding how they could have been physically tired, since they had had the longer layover and they are barely into their football season. But they really had no energy the second half, which was telling. I think it was part of why Arshavin was so out of sorts all night long.
Spain, by contrast, really picked up the pace the second half. Clearly, they had a change of mindset.
About chess matches on the football pitch:
I am not so sure that there was that much of a chess match in the first half. When you are watching a tactical battle, what you tend to see is each team adjusting what it tries to overcome the other side’s efforts. Thus, in a tactical battle, after, say 15 min. of failing to get a through ball to your forward, perhaps you start trying to play to the wings more, and crossing. Then your opponent responds by playing a wider defense, opening more space in the middle, which your team starts to exploit, until the other team starts collapsing the midfielders back into that area, etc. etc. etc. Some have argued on other boards that this is what Spain v. Italy was like; personally, I don’t think so at all. I thought that game was devoid of much tactical battle; instead the two teams seemed resigned to their roles and willing to play them to the bitter end.
Similarly, I didn’t see that much tactical manoeuvering by Spain against Russia in the first half, other than that which was forced upon them by the introduction of Fabregas for Villa. I think they were a patient squad, but they seemed to always expect that the Russians were going to come forward in numbers, as they had against the Dutch. Spain played better than the Dutch did, clearly, but Russia simply never had the same tactical plan in place as they did against the Dutch, not until it was too late for them.
But maybe I was missing something more subtle; it happens, I tend to watch for the entertainment, not the tactical analysis.
Glad to know you’re not the fool that I was. I’d bet you also figured there was no way I was going to watch a Spain match next to a puter…my hands get to sweaty to do anything but clap or wring in agony. Ain’t footy grand? 
Tiki-taca is a style that Aragones has brought with him in search for our own identity. Nothing fanciful really, but deceitfully hard to play. Look at it as “keep away” at the top level. Might be dull at times, and has sure stirred some emotional debates about it (see link for more), but so far, so good. Bottom line is that the ball is always going to be faster than the players chasing it – thus it wears them down.
Oh and blame the zone marking for Arshavin’s disappearing act as well.
Nah trust me on this…you are of rather keen mind for the sport. X’s and O’s are for wonks, a label that doesn’t add much to the entertainment value of the sport – 'cept that for some of us is not “just a sport” but an obsession. Could be worse I suppose.
It’s like this: you’ll be watching the match and hoping for a cracker. Me? I’ll know after the final whistle. Guess who’ll be having more fun during the actual match?
Wish I was in your shoes.
I think George Vecsey did a pretty good job explaining what this tournament means to (many) of us. Have a read if you’d like. I think you’ll see where we’re coming from.
Thanks for your response and cheers!
Since there is no justice in the world of football, I don’t see how Spain could possibly win the final, much as I’d like them to. I predict that the final will be one of the more boring games of the tournament and that Germany, much more accustomed to playing (and winning) finals than the Spanish, will win. 1-0, Ballack, last ten minutes of the game.
Other than that, papers here have been writing a lot about how the Spanish never win because there’s no national identity and the Basks and Catalans don’t associate themselves with the national team. Now they’re writing that things might be changing, that the success is uniting the Spanish, and one commenter was heard to remark when the 3-0 was scored ‘is Aragonés going to be the uniter of the Spanish, the Father of the Fatherland?’ or some such nonsense.
Anyone of you Españoles care to comment?
Nothing there I inherently disagree with. However, as mentioned before, this team, young as it is, doesn’t seem to care/realize what a heavy historical burden they carry on their tender shoulders – they are there to win. As Villa clearly stated in a presser, “we’re not playing against history, we’re playing the squad opposing us.”
Wise words from such a youngster.
<sidetrack>Pheew, not sure I want to go there in this particular thread as it could become the Mother Of All Derails. But to give you my abridged perspective, yes no doubt we have all sorts of different regional allegiances, both by blood and political philosophy, that run quite deep and prevent us from achieving the kind of solidary that other European nations posses.
The son of a well to do immigrant myself, I have some of those very traits running though my own bloodlines, being as I am, 3/4 quarters Asturian and 1/4 Basque, though born and raised in Madrid. Further, while my Father was a strict Nationalist who not only admired Franco but in ways also tried to emulate him – understandable to the point where his own father, my grandfather, was fallen at the beginning of the Civil War by the Republicans – my Mother, 1/2 Basque, 1/2 Asturian, was a “suppressed” Republican as she lived through her own share of tragedy from the Blues. Closest victim was her stepfather killed in siege of Oviedo and my uncle, imprisoned for close to 15 years by the Regime and ultimately ‘fortunate’ not to have been put to the firing squad. Can’t blame him for being bitter for the rest of his life either. Just one of a myriad of such examples.
Me? As an expat of many years, I don’t want to dig into the wounds of any side at all. Quite the contrary for as I am working hard to close shop in the graceful nation (along with the US, which had me just as gracefully for many years) I have lived in for many years, the Dominican Republic, and want to go back to Spain to try an help in any small way/s that I can. Feels almost like a duty to me.
Funny that, as a community, we expats bond, for the most part, quite tightly no matter the region nor political leaning. That’s what I aim to bring home with me. Although I am truly heartened by seeing the Ikurriñas, Senyeras, and the Cruz de Pelayo, amongst others, proudly and peacefully flying along the the sea of Red and Gold.
That’s all I’ll say about that.</sidetrack on my end anyways>