Opera singer fired for being "too fat." O.K. or unlawful discrimination?

Great Debates
1

I was going to be snarky and call this thread: Fat lady not allowed to sing: Opera never ends

But then I remembered the Sticky about being descriptive in thread titles.

So anyway, here’s the story:

The rest of story is here.

So, is this “fat discrimination” as Voigt claims, or do artistic directors who stage plays (or operas, or direct films) have extra leeway in making sure the physical look of the person matches the role?

I say yes. Otherwise Rosanne Barr and John Goodman could have been cast as the two leads in “Blue Lagoon” or something … and that would be, well, bizarre.

And this cuts both ways: Trim actors are not chosen to play Santa, Babe Ruth, Jackie Gleason, Fred Flintstone, B.B. King, etc.

Similarly, a black person would not be chosen to play John Kennedy, Franklin Roosevelt, Babe Ruth, Princess Di, Queen Beatrix, etc. And a white person would not be chosen to portray Rosa Parks, Nelson Mandela, Hank Aaron, Pélé, Jesse Jackson, etc.

So, how is the current case any different? Is it because people are becoming more aware of fat discrimination in the workplace and in other aspects of society?

2

IANAL but I worked in an amusement park which IIRC is covered under much of the same criteria legally. As an entertainment venue, control over the image presented is a huge part of the business.

Would you pay big bucks go see Annie played by a fat ugly 40 year old guy with a huge beer gut and no front teeth? If you won’t then thet guy cannot do the job.

3

I can’t imagine her having a case; physical appearance is obviously a criterium for entertainers.

BTW, you could have just used something like:

“Fat lady not allowed to sing: Opera never ends (weight discrimination case)”

for your title.

4

I agree with you.

When I was in high school, I was trying out for the lead role in a stage production of Aladdin. I didn’t get the part. Afterwards, I spoke with the director of the play and he told me that he thought my voice was better suited for the part. When I asked him why I didn’t get it, he said it was because he didn’t think the audience would buy me as Aladdin, since I have blond hair and blue eyes (the other guy was japanese, so he at least had the dark hair and eyes).

I see this situation with the opera singer to be similar. If the part calls for a relatively slim person and she’s obese, then he had every right to replace her.

This is, of course, just MHO.

5

But there is really a pretty established precedent in opera that the singers won’t necessarily be ideal looking for the part. Trust me, Alfredo isn’t supposed to be of (pardon the pun) Wagnerian dimensions, and yet Pavarotti played him often.

Julie

6

Actually, while I have to admit that all previous posters have a point, I am inclined to disagree with their conclusions.

Normally, I’d agree that especially in entertainment, hiring will be based on such ‘shallow’ things as skin color, weight, or hair length. And this is the right of whomever is setting up the production.

However, first off, it reads as though this woman had already been offered the part. She did not suddenly blimp up overnight. If her weight was going to be a factor then, why choose now to make it one? Secondly, let’s consider the traditional view of opera singers - namely large, barrel chested women who have huge voices that can fill a whole opera hall. I’m not going to say that one has to be large to achieve that, but it is something that has been believed to be a factor. Certainly, I doubt Strauss ever expected someone singing Ariadne would have to look nymph-like.

Looking at several other Ariadne’s located on the web, I really don’t see that the actress here is signifigantly less attractive, or heavier, than the norm.

Ariadne #1

Ariadne #2

So, yes, it does strike me as simple discrimination.

7

They are not just firing any old singer. From the NY Times:
The Royal Opera is not just replacing one of the leading dramatic sopranos of the day with a little-known German singer (Anne Schwanewilms). It is replacing the greatest living interpreter of this demanding Strauss role. Ms. Voigt first came to attention in a 1991 production of “Ariadne auf Naxos” with the Boston Lyric Opera. I was there. Her triumph was total. The audience was awestruck . . . Also, Ms. Voigt signed her contract nearly five years ago. When was the modern-dress concept arrived at? Is the company making this wrong-headed decision just to placate a director’s last-minute whim?

Later this month Ms. Voigt sings another of her signature roles, Sieglinde in Wagner’s “Walkure” at the Met. Though Sieglinde is a demigod, the daughter of Wotan, she does not know this when we meet her. She is a sad and lowly young woman who has been forced into an abusive marriage with an oafish warrior. What should Sieglinde look like? Probably some slip of a thing. But in all of her past performances Ms. Voigt has been so vocally splendid and expressively honest that she becomes an affectingly believable Sieglinde.

8

I always thought opera was about the music, not the size of the singer. I would rather listen to and watch a superlative singer who weighed more than she should than to listen to and watch a mediocre singer who was a vision to behold.

This frankly is something that has bothered me for a long time. People praise Charlize Theron for uglying up to play in Monster. There are people who walk this earth every day who look as unattractive, if not more so, than she did in that movie. Are they then heroes for having the courage to show their faces in public?

Is there a law that says only slim attractive people are able to find true love? I’m fat and my husband’s slim, but we love each other. While I have to agree with the OP that I wouldn’t have enjoyed watching Roseanne and John Goodman cast opposite each other in The Blue Lagoon, that doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t enjoy watching them in anything at all. I see so many gifted actors being unable to get work because they’re not “beautiful,” and yet they’re amazingly talented.

I’m sorry–I probably got off topic a little bit. This really is a sore spot for me. But to briefly answer the OP, yeah, I think it’s discriminatory and I think it’s wrong. If they fired her because she couldn’t sing well, or if her health was so bad that she could not fulfill her contractual obligations, that’s another matter altogether.

9

There’s plenty of precedents for this kind of decision - in particular, the Gershwin estate still maintain the right to veto any non-black singer taking a ‘black’ role in Porgy and Bess.

10

GorillaMan - how is this similar to not being allowed a ‘black’ role in Porgy and Bess? Ms. Voigt had already been offered the role, and unless she has ‘blimped up’ in the last few months, they knew what she looked like when they signed her, then. Choosing not to cast her could be for any number of reasons, and all at the director’s discretion. No argument there. Kicking her out of the production after she’s been signed, and blocked out her time to be there, is something else - especially when it’s for a condition that was apparant at the time she originally was offered the part.

11

Rumour has it that she DID ‘blimp up’ (great phrase, BTW :wink: )

12

jsgoddess is absolutely on the mark here. It is traditional that quality and type of voice are the most important criteria as far as casting operatic roles. All other considerations are purely secondary.

How else does Pavarotti get away with singing the role of a starving artist? Because nobody cares what he looks like. Just close your eyes and listen if you can’t deal with the visual performance.

I suppose, though, that this tradition may be on its way out. At least in some circles.

13

Because there’s idiots out there who’ll spend their life savings on a tickets to see him, when they won’t bother with any other singer. Using Pavarotti as an example of artistic integrity isn’t a rock-solid argument.

14

But opera (and musical theater) is not just music; it is a staged drama. I would hire Itzhak Perlman to play a violin concerto in a second, even though he is confined to a wheelchair. I don’t think I’d hire him to play the Fiddler on the Roof, though. It’s true that opera casting has often traditionally allowed appearance to be eclipsed by singing ability, but should it have to be that way? Shouldn’t the producer be able to decide for himself how he wants to cast his opera production? To be honest, I find it somewhat distracting to have a role that is supposed to be a beautiful young woman played by a fat old broad. I’m glad that producers put the highest priority on musical ability, but it does require one to suspend disbelief to a certain degree, and I think a case could be made that, all other things being equal, a slim, attractive woman would be the better choice to play a slim, attractive character, just as, all other things being equal, a black man would be the better choice to play Othello, for example.

I’m not saying that musical ability shouldn’t be the top priority, just that I don’t see why that choice should get to be made by anyone except the producer.

15

Your point is well taken. Let’s not use Pavarotti as an example.

I have performed in one professional operatic production, and have been in an amateur operetta company for nearly ten years. Whenever a role is to be cast for a particular opera, the foremost consideration is always the voice. Who among the various performers auditioning for a role has the best voice for that part?

Considerations of age, body type, pulchritude, disability, etc., are all subordinate to the voice issue. In one of our productions, I was playing the father of the tenor, who was, in reality, twice my age. And nobody at any time suggested that this was even remotely a problem. Or there was the performance of The Gondoliers in which one of two performers playing characters switched in infancy was black and the other was white. Again, nobody found it especially remarkable.

Opera is an art form which requires more suspension of disbelief than most. A talented stage actor in a non-musical role might be able to pull off a death scene that looks real and convincing, but how convincing is it when the victim of a stab wound sings for half an hour before falling silent?

I won’t say that you can’t change the practice. Only stating that it’s not the normal way of doing things.

I’m just imagining, though. “Hey, she shouldn’t have been cast as Salome – she’s obviously not a natural blonde!”

16

Oh, I don’t think anyone else should get to make that choice, but as a consumer of operas, I sure as hell wouldn’t go to one if I thought they picked someone who physically fit the part over someone who vocally fit it.

This is especially true of me since I tend to listen to operas rather than watching them.

When we’re talking true top-level voices, I don’t think producers can afford to be all that picky about what their singers look like. A top flight soprano is a rare commodity–not as rare as some of the male voices, sure, but rare.

OT: I’ll have to see if I can find the anecdote about Monsterrat Caballe and the trampoline. :smiley:

Julie

17

Absolutely right, which is why I don’t believe discrimination is an issue here. They don’t hire the barrel-chested women who can belt out a good tune because they’re afraid of a lawsuit, they do it because they want people to come to the show. (And more power to them.) But if a producer wants to hire someone who is a good singer AND beautiful, I think that is his prerogative. Whether one likes it, and whether one thinks it’s discrimination, are two entirely different issues.

18

Wrong. Othello is not “a black man” at all. He is what is called in the West a “Moor” = an Arab.
OK. How much do you offer to pay? I’m tall, good looking, can strangle a woman easily… I can’t sing but no problem; just put the singer in the orchestra pit and I shall dub him voiceless.

Opera is all about the music, who is lived on stage by the acting singers.
That is why casting should be done following the musical/artistic criteria of the singers.

But I see that you want to bann all coloured, Chinese, Korean, whatever non-white singers from the stage since most of the roles were created/thought for "whites? And we need to have a full Egyptian cast for Aida because “whites” can’t fit our imagination (good luck in looking for them).

If you go to an opera for the “appearance” of a singer instead of for the quality and the talent, may I suggest you buy a video or a CD where the roles always can be played by voiceless dubbing actors.

I am speecheless disgusted by the fact that a theatre like Covent Garden has lowered itself to unartistic amateuristic provincial level. Next they are going to cast singers who hold the high notes about 3 times longer then normal because the public comes only for that (and greats it with loud applaud and cheering in the middle of a scene).

Well, they wont see me there anymore. Bye peasents of Covent Garden.

Salaam. A

19

What I find interesting is the assumption in many posts that US law applies. Aren’t we talking about the UK here? Maybe someone from that side of the pond can chime in on what the law says.

20

I think it would be tough to make out a case for this being illegal discrimination. She’s being paid for the performances anyway, so it seems somewhat analogous to a publisher backing out of a contract to publish a book but the author gets to keep the advance. It’s far from unusual for a director and a performer to part ways because of “artistic differences” after rehearsals have started. Didn’t The Lord of the Rings switch Aragorns after filming had already started because the first actor looked too young?

It is, however, very stupid of the opera company. Like everyone’s been saying, opera is about a lot of things, but the primary one is the music embodied by the singers. There just aren’t that many really good singers in the world. Given a choice between two equally talented and well-suited singers for a role, one of whom looked exactly like a frail consumptive on her deathbed and one of whom…didn’t, I suppose the one who looked the part would be preferable. But how often do we get the luxury of such a choice? I recently saw Placido Domingo playing Parsifal—a naïve, guiless youth—opposite Rene Pape playing Gurnemantz—and elderly knight of the grail. Domingo’s 62; Pape is 38. Both performers were overwhelmingly moving—I wouldn’t have exchanged them for age-appropriate ones for anything. And it’s very rare for someone to come along who’s even capable of singing Tristan or Isolde without being collapsing. I saw the young pair all the Wagnerians are so excited about, Jane Eaglen and Ben Heppner. They were (at that point, Heppner’s lost weight since) both so fat that when they approached their climactic kiss you wondered how they would ever reach each other’s mouths. And yeah, there was a distracting second of cognitive disjunction that there wouldn’t have been if they had both been young, slender, and beautiful, but set against the performance they were giving, it was trivial.

The reason I think the opera company is being stupid and shooting itself in the foot is that most people don’t go to the opera mainly to see some director’s exciting iconclastic new interpretation of Don Giovanni set in a men’s urinal. An opera company that continues to cast (or make staging decisions) for non-musical reasons is going to have a dwindling audience. At least I hope so. Otherwise the quality of singing is going to decline. If I want to see slender, pretty, not terribly talented people acting, I already have plenty of opportunity.