The key difference between the Germans being forced out of ancient German lands is they had somewhere to go. If they had basically been forced to live in refugee status for eternity it is hard to say what would be going on in those regions now, probably a lot of unrest.
If other Arab countries had accepted the various groups of Palestinians made refugees by the long conflict as full citizens most likely these issues would not be very big today. How many Germans of Koenigsberg and their grandchildren are part of organizations waging war against Russia? People don’t fight their entire lives and the lives of their children and grandchildren if they have better things to do.
Alternatively, imagine if Israel had refused to absorb Jews who were chased out of Hebron, Gaza, Baghdad, and so on. And instead made them live, generation after generation, in refugee camps.
If the various Arab states had accepted the Palestinians in their territory, they would have had problems in their own countries (and the ones that did, like Jordan did have big problems) as Palestinians in Arab countries are /= to Eastern Germans in the rest of rump Germany,l they would form a very distinct identity. Its also often forgotten that many Palestinians DID move to other countries, not just in the Arab world and the west but elsewhere as well. Pakistan took many in, one of my ex girlfriends was of Palestinian origin, although her family had long since assimilated.
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The border between Israel and Lebanon was established as part of the Sykes-Picot Agreement, while the border between Israel and Egypt…
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The bit about Sykes reminds me that he was in private; one hell of an anti-semite. The British minister in charge of this area after the conquest, Edwin Montagu was seen by the British establishment as a “thoroughly fine chap, but unfortunately too lenient towards the natives; Jewish afterall”. The universe does loves its ironies.
I’m not sure that’s correct. From a cultural and historical point of view, the Prussians were at least as different from the western and southern German peoples as the Palestinians are from the Syrians, Iraqis and Egyptians. Bear in mind that Germany had barely existed as a country for half a century before they were driven out of what is now Poland; even in WW2, it was more a confederation of German-speaking nations than a single nation-state.
Certainly, but the German language was the binding glue of the area and the idea of a German people had existed for several centuries. Also, recall that for the longest time, persons outside the Arabian Peninsula were not thought of as Arab, indeed up to the 19th century in some places, the Levant, Mesopotamia and N Africa were seen as distinct, and Arabic was the lingua franca rather than a binding instrument as it was in Germany.
Also, the W Germans never did accept the finality of the Oder-Niesse line; it was the 1990 Treaty which formulated it. Finally, the allies were occupying Germany at the time, the German government could do damn all.
Thank you for writing this. This is precisely what is happening. The whole thing is engineered so that every few years, Israel unfurls it’s “two minutes of hate” on the nearest Arab state: I imagine Israeli commanders play “duck, duck, goose” between PLA, Gaza, Lebanon, Iran, and Jordan. Now, Israel is doing what terrorist do: publishing real-life movies of their targeted kills on Youtube like some bragging man-child. Everytime I hear “Jewish democracy” I just want to retch because it means nothing and is a ridiculous oxymoron. What’s next? A New Zealand democracy? A democracy for homo sapiens with the PTEN gene variant on nucleotide 256? :rolleyes:.
Obama dropped the ball by supporting Israel’s operation. Why does he steadfastly and blindly support a country that has openly spied on us, tried to meddle in our elections, continued to build settlements despite our protestations, and continues to waste our damn time with the Middle Eastern peace when it’s pretty clear that the Israeli government is driven by fear and has no interest in making peace with its neighbors. We could use those few billion dollars to fix schools and our infrastructure rather than pouring our tax dollars into a “Jewish democracy” that’s not a democracy but a government-sponsored clique.
Yes, the so-called “Militants” who are shooting rockets into Israel and killing innocent Jews are actually Mossad operatives, the same group of people behind 9/11.
And I again must ask why you can’t bring nutmeg across the Gaza-Egypt border. Is Israel now in charge of Egyptian customs?
Seriously, if things are so shitty in Gaza, why isn’t Egypt equally to blame? Not that life is super rosy in Egypt, but the Egyptian government certainly has the wherewithal to send coriander and copies of the Sacramento Bee to Gaza. So what’s the deal here, RedFury?
That’s not what I meant and you know it, that’s why you didn’t include the full sentence in your quote. Don’t mean to the bearer of bad news but Israel has encumbered themselves by an absurd policy: any rocket fire coming from Gaza is construed as the Hamas-sanctioned. It’s an impossible request to make of a Hamas-led government that don’t control their country’s own air space, sea ports, their utilities, and even taxation. How can you pin the acts of an individual not affiliated with Hamas on the many? Hypothetically, a group of kids who find and fire a rocket toward Israel could spark and fuel a bloodbath.
Could you imagine if the U.S had policies like Israel? We’d have cut off ties with Canada long-ago due to their intentional and malicious saturation of maple syrup into our pancake market. I suspect we would also be at war in Mexico which would’ve started after a van filled with marijuana and cocaine was pulled over on the Texas highway. It would be perceived as a deliberate and purposeful act of terror drawn out by the upper echelons of the Mexican government.
When Hamas itself comes out and announces its demands or the rocket attacks will continue, we are to assume all those rockets are just coming from some disgruntled individual Hamas has no control over?
That would be like Canada & Mexico firing rockets into US cities and President Obama himself said that neither the US nor any other country would tolerate rocket attacks from across the border. Retaliation would be swift and certain, and the US officially agrees with Israel.
Yes, I can imagine the US having policies like Israel.
What you seem to be saying is that (1) Israel has some motive in the latest confrontation besides self-defense; and (2) Israel somehow manufactured the current situation so that it could accomplish that ulterior motive under the guise of self-defense.
Did I misunderstand you?
I’m not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that Hamas has opposed the more recent rocket fire? If so, what’s your evidence? And so what?
Again, I’m not sure I understand your point. Are there Canadians who are trying to murder Americans for being American? Has Canada declared that it wants to destroy the United States? Is maple syrup being smuggled into the United States in order to accomplish these goals?
Me too, and I’m having difficulty seeing any difference here.
If Canadian or Mexican groups were launching rockets into the United States with the idea of harming Americans, it wouldn’t matter whether Canada or Mexico were supporting such groups. The US would take military action and would be completely justified in doing so.
Of course this assumes that Hamas is against the rocket attacks and for whatever reason is unable to police the Gaza Strip effectively. An assumption of which I am highly skeptical.
… Or that Hamas is against the rocket attacks, but is trapped under a large tree and can’t get to a microphone to publicly denounce the firing of rockets into Israel. It could happen!