Of course they think the LAND belongs to Israel. But don’t for a nano-second think the Palestinians living there do.
Is Israel calling for the destruction of Iran or feeding arms to dissidents who then launch them on Iran (or any other Muslim country for that matter). Unlike the religious wars between the various Islamic factions across the region Israel isn’t calling for their destruction.
Again, any other country in the world would have launched a full-out war against Hamas a LOOOOONG time ago.
Or: any other country in the world would have negotiated statehood with the Palestinians decades ago. Take you choice - of opinions.
To echo a point made earlier, it is quite fascinating to see an issue about which the US population seems so uniquely at odds with the rest of the world - it reminds me of how effective lobbying and media compliance demonized ‘socialized healthcare’ for decades within the US.
You can’t “negotiate statehood” with a group that doesn’t actually want a state. The Palestinian Arabs have been offered a state many times and they’ve always turned it down. Because they don’t actually want a state. What they want is for there not to be a Jewish state.
This goes all the way back to the UN Partition Plan in the late 40s which provided for an Arab state substantially larger than what is now referred to as the West Bank and Gaza.
The Jews accepted the UN Partition Plan. Chaim Weizmann famously said that the Jews would accept a state that was the size of a tablecloth. The Arabs rejected the UN Partition Plan and went to war to destroy the Jewish state.
What do you mean, “allow”? It’s a free country - anyone can draw whatever map they want. Most Israelis, being practical folk, prefer maps that show how things are, rather than how they may think things should be, and right now, East Jerusalem is unified with West Jerusalem. If that changes in the future, they’ll change the maps.
I think these options are not mutually exclusive.
I think that a responsible government, when its civilians are attacked, should do both things – thwart the attacks by any means possible, including use of force against the attackers and try to figure out diplomatic means for negating the reason for these attacks.
On the first point, we appear to disagree (you seem, at least to me, to think that it is not Israel’s right, nay duty, to fight back when attacked.)
On the second point, while I fully agree that we have often been remiss in pursuing diplomatic channels, I’m not really certain that there is anything Israel can do that will satisfy Hamas (and their Iranian overlords) other than ceasing to exist. I hope you agree with me that this is not a tenable solution…
Are you telling me that all other countries limit their car driving and government offices to places away from where there may be civilians? Give me a break.
And there’s this:
Anyone who thinks this is limited to just sites where there are rockets and/or stashes of rockets is seriously deluded.
Yes, that is clear cut. But it is a single person. Most of the people that post in these threads are more subtle about it. I have on many occasions been subjected to it myself, especially from FinnAgain.
Well there is that pesky majority of people that wants them to stay. Democracy, eh?
Unless you are getting all annoyed about the concepts of countries being defined by conflicts centuries ago. In that case, as someone that grew up in Warwickshire I absolutely demand the kingdom of Mercia’s independence is returned and will bomb the fuck out of everyone until I get my way.
I can assure you that just as the majority of Protestants in Ireland wanted to remain part of the UK, the majority of Jews in the Territories want to remain part of Israel. Would you be cool with us sawing off a part for them to keep, just like you did with Ulster?
Additionally, I at no point claimed that the Gaza Strip is 100% dense urban areas. I was replying to this post:
Where FinnAgain refers to it by saying “And most rational people would understand that in a dense urban environment”, which looks kind of weird when he says a few hours later “Fictional. There are plenty of open spaces from which to launch attacks and Hamas could very well segregate its military forces from the civilian population.”
I was using FinnAgain’s own words against him. He made one claim about a “dense urban environment” and I offered a different way of looking at it. Unfortunately he seems to change his mind fairly regularly or is suffering from some sort of selective amnesia.
I’m pretty sure the majority of Palestinians want to be part of a Palestinian state.
Personally I’d be very cool if Israel took their bit and stuck with it. A two state solution is exactly what I would like to see.
Unfortunately neither side seems to be able to stick to that idea. Israel routinely steals more land and the Palestinians have a tendency to think maybe Israel shouldn’t be there at all.
As I’ve always said, both sides are in the wrong in the Middle East. A two state solution where both sides stick to their defined areas is exactly what I want. Neither side has shown the ability to stick to that.
Not to speak for Alessan, but my interpretation is that, in the case of UK / Eire, the UK carved out Ulster out of the island of Ireland, which Eire claims is all theirs.
Similarly, those parts of the West Bank with a large concentration of Israelis (Jerusalem’s Old City, Ariel, Gush Etzion, Ma’ale Adumim…) could, by this logic, be “Ulsterized,” based on the fact that the majority of these Israelis would want these area to remain part of Israel, and added, on a permanent basis, to the part of the tract of land between the Mediterranean and the River Jordan which is called “Israel” rather than the part which may eventually be called “Palestine.”
Alternatively, it seems to me that it is inconsistent to argue that Ulster should and can remain British, but all parts of the West Bank, 100%, not one centimeter ceded, must become part of the eventual Palestine, no modifications allowed. It’s not even like the “Green Line” a natural boundary – while in the case of UK / Eire it is!
If Palestinians had a tenth of the opportunities for a better life as the average Israeli, does anyone really think parents would be as eager to go out and acquire a suicide-vest for their kids as soon as they can walk?
The fact of the matter is, Isnotreal doesn’t want a successful Palestine.
So you think that it is only poverty that causes fanatic hatred? It has nothing to do with Islamic fanaticism?
Those kids in Gaza would have opportunites for a better life if their society educated them with role models for how to live, not how to commit suicide.
Schools in America are named after George Washington and Martin Luther King..The schools in Gaza are named after suicide bombers.
Obviously poverty isn’t the cause, as we only have to look at Israel to see. They are very wealthy and they have fanatical hatred so down to a T, it is government policy, albeit couched in weasel words.
This is all their Israeli neighbours have allowed them to be. Do you think the average person on the street dare say "Can we not call it something else? How about “My Little Pony Day Centre?” without the fanatics that Israel’s fanatics in power have created doing something nasty to them?
Careful there… a fair number of the people critical of Israel in this thread appear to be British. Do you really want to remind them that US schools are often named for that notorious terrorist, who led the natives in a guerrilla campaign against the Glorious Empire, George Washington?
