Yeah - the law around here requires post in as well.
I view it a little differently than you. With the post side facing me, it conveys a sense that I am “inside” my fence. In my mind, it is a minor factor contributing to my sense of privacy, etc from being within my own space. If I installed the fence as you suggest, when I looked at the “finished” side I would feel a faint sense of being “outside” of the fences.
Folk certainly act and perceive things differently.
We’ve lived in one house for about 10 years, another for maybe 15, and this current one for about 14. Put up fences (we’ve always had dogs) at each of the 3 houses. While we had neighbors move during our time in each home, in each case the subsequent buyers outlasted us.
The house I grew up in my dad lived in for 70 years. When I was born the houses on either side were occupied by old widow ladies who had been there for decades. One sold when I was a kid and the other when I was in college, but both of those owners were still there when we sold the folks’ house when I was in my late 30s.
One more thing - I encourage the OP to check the local law and ensure that the neighbors have their fence installed consistent with that law. But in the past, we have had neighbors accuse us of being unreasonable and unneighborly for simply asking them to do things consistent with the clear law (having to do with directing downspouts to the front or back rather than towards your neighbors.)
We live in an area where fences are the norm, and most of them are wood privacy fences. There are no local laws or ordinances governing them other than limiting their height (7’ on side and rear fences, 6’ on any fence on a street-side, IIRC). We don’t really get along well with either of our neighbors (we’re on a corner, so only two adjacent properties), but we were lucky that in spite of our frosty relationships with both of them, they were both reasonable enough when it came time to replace our shared fencing. Miraculously, we all agreed on a style (one of many known as a “good neighbor” fence) and split the costs evenly. They even agreed with our choice of contractor when we showed them the bids we’d received. I hope we never have to replace the fences as long as we live here, but if we do, I can only hope that our future neighbors are as reasonable as our current ones.
That being said,
No, not in the least. Leaves, dirt, weeds, rain, critters, and all manner of things will accumulate between the fences, and if they’re wood fences, they’ll rot unless you can get between them and muck out the gap regularly. You’ll probably find rats, skunks, possums, and/or feral cats making their homes in that gap.
To answer the OP, I would let them build their fence. They didn’t ask you to share costs, and as long as it’s not on your property line, it won’t be much of a detriment to you other than blocking your view of their property (which your new neighbors may consider an asset). Only offer to contribute some money if you want a voice in the style of fence, otherwise, it seems it’s their project they’ll gladly undertake on their own.
I would not offer to help pay for the neighbor’s fence - you’ll have no rights to it, so why give away money for them to put it up?
My yard shares fences with 4 different neighbors. Each person has fully paid for the fences on their property, no sharing expenses.
The finished side faces the person who built it.
The only exception to who paid for our fences is when my cheap neighbor behind me needed to replace a section of his wood privacy fence that fell over, and he wanted to replace it with chain link because of how cheap it would be. I told him I’d pay half if he’d replace it with a wood fence, and I found an inexpensive but excellent fence company to use.
I repeat, folk often do not know exactly where the property line is. I would expect a new survey. Personally, I would not hire a fence installer who did not require a survey, or at least findable boundary markers.
Have you ever checked your local codes?
From our city code:
All fences shall be erected with the “good” or “decorative” side facing outward.
Also, a permit is required:
No fence or wall, as defined above, shall be erected or placed upon any property without first obtaining a fence permit therefor. Plans indicating specific location, material type, and height of proposed fencing shall accompany the permit application.
I’m not entirely clear whether a recent survey is required, or if a plat of survey with locatable posts is sufficient. When we installed our most recent fence, with a troublesome neighbor, we ordered a survey, but I’m not sure whether that was because it was required or because our neighbors were nuts. She pulled out the flags. On the day of installation, she was jawing at our installers. She was attempting to dispute the survey by her own measurements using a tape measure or something. We called code enforcement. They came over, simply told our workers to proceed, and then stepped away with the neighbor to (presumably) tell her to butt out.
Personal taste varies. But I prefer a well done chainlink over the 6’ white plastic that is currently the vogue around me.
Absolutely. Property lines are seldom where the owners think they are! My parents had friends whose entire subdivision had been built with houses on the wrong properties. IIRC correctly, not even the STREETS were where they were supposed to be! I don’t know if the community ever got it straightened out. The friends are now deceased, and I’m no longer in touch with their kids, so I don’t know what issues they may have encountered when they sold it.
I just want to re-emphasize the need to hire a professional land surveyor. It may cost more than the fence. But it is vital to prevent very serious problems later on.
The legal property boundary is VERY often not where you think it is.You might think that the trimmed grass and flower beds on both lots look nice, and everybody is happy with them, so why worry? But the true boundary is often very different.
People move, neighbors change, and a couple years from now you could find youself in a huge and expensive legal mess if the fence encroaches on the wrong land. Prevent problems now, when it’s still cheap.
Most of the wood fences I see now are identical on both sides, which makes deciding which way to face it a lot easier. The first pic is what my newest fence looks like:
My in-laws had one of these. They thought it would fare better in a windstorm. I doubt we’ve ever had a windstorm big enough here that it would have mattered.
I agree on having a survey done. Where I live, there are no (or no longer) any permanent markers in the ground.
Most fences around here look like the bottom picture, but the occasional few look like the top one. Unlike old-style fences, neither one has a “front” or “back”. The top one looks more elegant but the bottom style is pretty obviously cheaper.
Speaking of wind damage, this is the first house I’ve lived in that had a fence damaged by high winds, probably because this particular location is fairly unsheltered from the strong westerlies that occasionally come along.
A portion of the fence got knocked down once, fixed by the neighbour who wouldn’t let me help because of my age, the work being done by his son and nephew under his supervision. But he did hit me up for half of the materials costs, which was minor.
The funny thing was that the next summer, in another strong wind storm, that section blew down again! This left a real mess because of a broken post embedded in concrete. This time he called in a professional who somehow resolved everything. This was years ago and it’s been fine ever since. I never heard anything from him about sharing the cost – I think he was too embarrassed by the incompetent job he had done before. And I’m fine with that!
And yes, I agree, when building a fence, an accurate survey is a really good idea. You really don’t want to get this wrong!
The post side doesn’t need to be either less-finished or ugly. Personally, I find a blank board fence rather impersonal and borderline intimidating, with a strong “keep out” vibe. But I reckon the need to have access for ongoing repairs is the most important aspect for the owner of the fence.
For the OP, I would not feel any urge to pay for any part of the fence that they want and you don’t. Do you want to buy the headaches of upkeep and repair, which for wooden-post fences will happen in 10 years or less. Just make sure the entirety of the fence is provably within their property lines.
My rear neighbors have a fence that has 90% fallen over, which they clearly don’t care about since I have a well-maintained fence between the yards. It’s clear from surrounding properties, all fenced, that their fence is well on their side, so we have no say about its condition. On the other hand, there are (chain-link) fences between us and both side properties, the ownership of which has changed several times since we’ve been here, and I don’t think anyone knows which property they are on, unless we get a survey done.
After reading all these responses, I’m starting to think the survey is a more important issue than whether I pay for half of the fence. The neighbor actually asked me if I would be ok with their contractor doing an “informal” survey to determine the fence line, making his best effort to put the fence on their property. She said that an “official” survey would cost $7000. I don’t really care if their fence is a little over the line, but if I ever sell the house a buyer might care very much. So I guess either I need them to convince me that the fence is absolutely, no question about it, on their side of the line, or we need to get a real survey done. I’m not sure how the former could actually happen without the latter. Maybe what I should do is offer to pay for half of the survey instead of half of the fence.
Another recommendation to get a survey. A few years ago we had our basement under-pinned and lowered, and a survey was required for the permitting process. The survey showed that the fences on either side of the lot were both on our property. This past year our neighbours to the south had a big renovation done, house was gutted to the studs/joists and rebuilt and the existing back-yard deck removed and a lower but larger one built. As part of the project, they wanted to replace the fences on what they assumed were both sides of their property. When they told me this, I showed them the survey and said I had no problem with the fence being rebuilt as long as it was moved to just inside my property line, it had angled from right at the edge at one end to about 16 inches inside at the other. I also offered to pay for the materials, but not the labour. They were fine with this, and also appreciated that I had an up-to-date survey the contractor could use to position the new fence.
As I mentioned upthread, when I had my ~1/2 acre sloping oddly shaped and generally difficult lot resurveyed in about 2003 in MO the cost was well under $1K. I’m not remembering exactly but 500ish sounds right. It was NOT sticker shock at all.
Perhaps your neighbor is interested in dissuading you from getting a proper survey? Check for yourself. Heck, if the price is reasonable, offer to pay for the survey and let her pay for her fence.
I would also want to know whether fences are things that require permits and inspections in your local jurisdiction. Some do, some don’t. If you’re in an HOA, they may have their own mini-permitting process. In good HOAs, that’s a mere formality, and in bad HOAs … well … we have threads and threads on that.
I would never pay a penny towards work done by unlicensed unbonded people, and doubly so in a jurisdiction where they’re performing work without a required permit. The liability issues when stuff goes wrong can be enormous.
Fenceless neighborhoods always seemed strange to me. In Southern California, everyone has concrete block walls. They just build the houses like that. When I moved to the Midwest fences/walls of any kind were rare, at least in my area. Now I’m in Florida, wood or vinyl fences are common but deteriorate over time and I don’t like the older ones.
How big of a property and what sort of property is this? $7k is CRAZY high - like at least 10x more than any residential property around me.
This is sounding weirder and weirder. In any residential area I’ve been familiar with, getting a survey, identifying lot lines, and having a fence installed is NOT complicated. The neighbor seemingly making it complicated raises flags. I’d suggest that if they don’t want to pay for a survey, then they should be sure to install it well inside of whatever you both agree/believe/understand to be the boundary. Your neighbor wanting a fence shouldn’t cost you a penny.
I agree with not paying for the fence. And definitely make sure the property lines are properly marked, and the fence is permitted (if required).
When I moved into my house the first thing I had done was have a fence added (a 4’ chain link, and it’s lovely). Neighbor to the east already had a fence. In our city there’s a packet you can get that tells you all of the info you need to build a fence. The paperwork says if you want to take your fence up to the property line you have to get written permission from neighbor(s), so I typed out a letter and took it to the already-fenced neighbor to sign. The west and north sides are 3’ inside my property line. I don’t remember who marked the property line, but the whole thing was permitted so perhaps the city did, to make sure the permit was all correct.
Some years later I got a new dog that quickly realized he could hop the neighbor’s 3’ fence with ease. So I had to install something taller. I went to the neighbor again and asked if it was ok if I replaced his old 3’ with a new 5’. I would pay for it all and he could keep the metal for scrap. He was super happy with this arrangement!
Anyway, I guess my point is….they’re the ones who want a fence, let them be solely responsible for the fence. The only thing you need to do to be a nice neighbor and to give yourself access to a portion of the fence is agree to let them put it on the property line.
In the United States, each state has different laws. In my state, you are legally required to build your fence fully inside your property. And you normally pay for whatever fence you build. In other states, you are legally required to pay half the cost of a fence on the property line.
Not that neighbors necessarily follow the those laws (and if they get along well, it doesn’t matter), but those are the norms.
The OP should check the laws in their state, and also, look at nearby properties to see what is common near them.
Absolutely! And that cost surprises me. I’ve paid for a survey and i didn’t remember being shocked by the price. You might shop around.
If you don’t already know the boundary markers, you may be able to find a plat map of your lot from the records at the county clerk. Most counties have a way to do an online lookup of your property for tax values. Often, a scan of the plat map will also be available online. If not, you can go to the county clerk and see the map yourself. From the plat map, you may be able to determine the boundary locations yourself so that you’ll know if the fence is basically where it should be. Of course, this isn’t as good as an actual survey, but it may be close enough.
If the map says there are steel rods marking the corners, you may be able to find them with a metal detector. That’s what I have at my property and that’s how I was able to locate them on my own.
