What is wrong with self-denial? If someone wants to have a closer relationship with God, and finds that denail and mortification helps him/her with it, so what? I’m amazed how quick people are to condemn someone who follows a different path. What about people who are in debt up to their eyeballs (they have to have everything), and drive massive SUVs, and thro trash out the window-ar these people to admire?? :smack:
If that article didn’t set off your Gaydar, you need to bring it in for repairs.
But Captain, what really boggles is the “So much for stereotypes” line in the Op-ed. Come ON. Doesn’t that line just beg to be mocked mercilessly? He’s not dismissing stereotypes, he’s embodying stereotypes.
Nothing wrong with being a prissy english professor studying fashion and Oscar Wilde and going out to Fire Island for some R&R and BDSM now and then. Perfectly normal, perfectly healthy.
What’s sad is a prissy english professor studying fashion and Oscar Wilde who straps metal spikes to his thigh to help him keep his mind off the cock.
I don’t know which is sadder…if he’s telling the truth about his celibacy, or if he’s lying about it. Wait, I do know. For his sake, I pray he’s lying.
You’re apparently arguing with someone, but I can’t figure out who. No one has said what you seem to be attempting to contradict. Voices maybe?
No one (at least not me), is saying that what he’s doing is wrong; I said, specifically, that it works for him. Personally, I’m just remarking on what seems to be; not imposing my judgment on it. I believe, personally, that this is a psychologically unhealthy way to live. Others will disagree. No one is “right” or “wrong” here.
Two questions:
- Do you believe this guy sucks cock?
- Do you believe this guy wants to suck cock but doesn’t?
Fair enough, although he’s not saying that being gay is bad. Lemur actually seems to find this funny for a different reason than I do - but the laughter for him is probably coming from the fact that the author is giving off a gay vibe, and the author would obviously think being gay is bad.
There’s nothing wrong with self-denial. But this kind of obsessive self-denial has a weird, obsessive, ‘dry drunk’ quality.
How about this: They’re both morons
(mortification dudes and massive-credit-card-debt-throw-trash-out-the-window dudes)
Another thing that rubbed me the wrong way:
Does he really think some hungry third world peasant is going to feel comforted knowing this guy wears metal spikes strapped to his thigh every day?
You know, it’s admirable to feel solidarity with the poor and suffering. If you helped out the poor and suffering even though it caused you physical discomfort that would be admirable. If he was was sending food to the poor and suffering even though it meant he had to go a bit hungry himself that would be admirable. If he was cold because he gave his coat to some homeless guy that would be admirable. If the Nazis were torturing him because he helped some Jews escape to Switzerland that would be admirable.
The metal spike thing? Not so much.
So the matter of basis for a quality which you would deem to be admirable would involve his hopping into a time machine & travelling to war-torn Europe? That strikes me as an invalid judgement, sorry.
I agree.
For me, the sentence that takes the cake is
God, he is a fucking idiot.
No, of course not, do you really need contemporary examples?. If he were bringing food and books to hungry Iraqi children, despite the risk that some Islamists might kidnap him and torture him to death, that would be admirable. If he were nursing ebola patients in Africa despite the risk of being infected himself, admirable. If he was helping his neighbor escape from an abusive spouse, despite the fact that he was risking violent retaliation from said abusive spouse, admirable. And on and on. I can list thousands of cases where someone risks physical discomfort, pain, or death, but acts anyway because their actions will help suffering people.
Wearing metal spikes on your thigh causes physical discomfort and pain, but doesn’t help one single solitary suffering person.
NOW do you see the difference?
Me? Personally? Wow, thanks for making this about me; usually I have to do that.
Personally, speculatively, from the “evidence” at hand, my opinion is that this guy probably has some urges that, due to his religious beliefs, he feels he has to sublimate and repress. Further speculation, based on the same evidence, suggests that he might even feel a need to punish himself for those urges.
Reading this guy’s letter is not on a par, of course, with knowing him personally. This armchair psychology we’re indulging in is more like, say, reading a novel and trying to understand a fictional character’s motivations.
Let me just put it this way: if I were writing a novel and I wanted to include a character who was conflicted about his sexual urges and his religious beliefs, I would think it would be TOO obvious to make him a self flagellating Oscar Wilde scholar. That would make it a comedy.
Ah. That, by far, is the best comment here so far. Despite Fortunato’s remarks about charitable donations being “inadequate and patronizing,” there’s a chance that they actually might, you know, do some good. Nobody is helped by this guy torturing himself. Come to think of it, that’s an amazing example of religious stupidity and selfishness: 'helping people with money is useless, but I can make the world better by hurting myself, ‘cuz I’m so important to the world.’ 
If I had my way, I’d brick this guy up inside a wall for being so annoying.
I agree. This struck me (an avid Flannery O’Connor fan) as the Sin of Pride: he thinks his pain is somehow important enough to matter. I read (speculatively) a certain morbid pride in his self-chastisement. This is a common theme in religious fiction.
Well, I’m sure the manufacturers of Bactine appreciated his efforts.
Which is why the “So much for stereotypes” line in the op-ed caused me to boggle. If this guy were a character in “The Da Vinci Code” we’d be rolling our eyes at Dan Brown for creating such a transparent stereotype.
I think think you’re misunderstanding the purpose of self-mortification. It has nothing to do with helping the poor and suffering (which, of course, would be a fine thing to do). It’s about experiencing suffering - not for the sake of others who suffer but for one’s own sake. “To feel solidarity with the poor and suffering” - not meaning to help those who are poor and suffering; but to experience poverty and suffering as opposed to the wealth and comfort of everyday life (for westerners).
If the stereotype of Opus Dei is anything like it is portrayed in the DaVinci Code, this guy doesn’t fit it unless he goes around murdering theological innovators in his spare time.
Sounds like strapping on his spiked metal band gives him some instant gratification, and at two hours per day, it is a dominant part of his life.
I seem to recall a story about Simone Weil, who wouldn’t heat her apartment out of sympathy for the unemployed. Her friends couldn’t bring themselves to tell her that most of the unemployed lived in heated rooms.