Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread

Here’s a link to the thread I started on Sir Roy and the Green Energy (which someone else pointed out would be better titled Sir Roy and the Green Light).

If you examine the list of Roy’s sword swings in the thread, you’ll find that it’s a little bit different than the one I posted above. That’s because I changed it after starting the thread, but didn’t go back to the list in my file to do the same. Anyway, you can also see a discussion about Roy’s emotional state and various other possible causes. Also some about whether a particular swing is a hit or not.

And then someone pointed out that we probably don’t see all the swings in all the battles, so our statistics may be flawed.

Hey, maybe Roy will bust out that move his grandfather taught him, killing Xykon temporarily. Then they hightail it out of there before Red Cloak implodes someone.

Tactless. :smiley:

That could get awkward when Xykon rematerializes near the real phylactery, as opposed to the fake one.

Exactly what I was thinking. When Xykon’s body gets destroyed (assuming it does), he’s going to be pretty ticked off at Redcloak. Seems like Redcloak’s only option at that point will be to destroy the phylactery immediately; he can’t let Xykon grow a new body, or he’s toast.

One of the funnier ideas I ran across on the OOTS forums now that they are up again: There is an illusion trap, and Xykon is commenting "Not THIS guy again because he’s just fought a dozen or so “Roys”. So he and Redcloak may just walk past a stunned OOTS without attacking, not believing they are actually there. Bonus points if the Order also thinks X & R are illusions.

If the trap is along the lines of “illusion of own worst enemy”, why would Xykon see Roy? He can barely remember him half the time…

Undead (sentient ones, anyway) are affected by illusions? I never really thought about how illusions actually work. Is there anything about their being-dead state that gives them any kind of protection from illusions?

Are illusions “mind affecting” spells? If I was lead into the pyramid blind folded, would I succumb to an illusionary pit trap?

The balrog-wings of D&D, distilled into one little question…

I half suspect that Xykon really does know who Roy is, and just pretends to not recognize him because it pisses Roy off.

It depends. Illusion spells break down into a few different subcategories: glamours, figments, patterns, phantasms, and probably some more I’m forgetting. What we’re mostly interested in here are figments and phantasms.

Figments manipulate light and air to create sights and sounds. These sort of illusions are “real” in the sense that they composed of actual photons and sound waves - if you pointed a video camera at one, it would record it normally. These sorts of illusions affect undead just like they affect humans.

Phantasms, on the other hand, trick the target’s mind into thinking it’s perceiving something that’s not really there. Phantasms can be so convincing that the target takes actual damage from it, even though it’s essentially just a hallucination. These sorts of illusions are mind affecting effects, and don’t work on undead.

Do you mean an illusion of a pit where there’s really solid floor, or the illusion of a solid floor where there’s really a pit?

If it’s an illusion of a pit, and the illusion is of the “figment” type, then stepping into isn’t going to do anything to you. You’d perceive yourself as standing in mid-air, which is usually enough for you to overcome the illusion and see what’s really there. If you were blindfolded, you’d have no idea that anything odd had happened.

If it were a phantasmal pit, on the other hand, even if you were blindfolded, when you stepped “into” the pit, you would perceive yourself to be falling, followed by the perception that you’d just hit the ground.

If you meant the illusion of solid ground where there’s really a pit, then you fall in the hole, regardless of whether you’re blindfolded or not. That said, I’m not entirely sure how a phantasm of solid ground would work - usually, you’d use a figment for this type of effect. You wouldn’t just walk across thin air like Wile E. Coyote, but I suspect you’d perceive yourself to be standing on solid ground up until the point where you hit the real bottom of the real pit, and drive your ankle bones up into the top of your skull.

Der Trihs theory is entertaining, but strictly speaking, would be impossible. The easiest way to get the sort of effect he’s describing would be with the phantasmal killer spell, which does almost exactly what he’s talking about - but that wouldn’t work on an undead. Even if you did it with a figment, though, it wouldn’t work on Xykon because first you’d need to get the image of his worst enemy out of his mind, and undead are immune to spells that affect the mind.

I had in mind the first case. The victim thinks he sees a trap, and the power of his own mind kills him. (Just like an Illusionary Xykon would kill Roy.)

I failed to consider alternative illusions.

I am not sure I follow the second paragraph. Why would a phantasmal pit illusion make me think I was falling if I can’t see it?

In 3E, there are 5 subcategories of illusion: figment, glamer, pattern, phantasm and shadow.

Figments are like holograms: everyone can see and/or hear them, but they can’t harm anyone.

Phantasms are like nightmares: they only exist in a person’s mind, but they could give you a heart attack (or whatever).

So it’s the difference of seeing a hologram or a trompe l’oeil picture of a pit vs. having a nightmare that you’re falling into a pit – one would work on someone who can’t see and one wouldn’t.

A phantasm effects all of your senses, not just your eyes. If you were blindfolded, and someone threw you off a building, you’d still know you were falling, right?

:smack:

See? This is why I keep you guys around! Thanks!

As long as we’re discussing the mechanics of D&D magic, what effect does the death of the Draketooth family have here? The spells were talking about were cast be people who were subsequently killed. Do the spells survive their caster?

Spells last for a set time, and most of the Draketooths were high enough level that many of their illusions would last for weeks. Remember the schedule in [842](Spells last for a set time, and most of the Draketooths were high enough level that many of their illusions would last for weeks. Remember the schedule in)? Haley even pointed out that the only illusions left would be the ones that lasted for weeks or months.

886 up. 886 Victory Comes From Within - Giant in the Playground Games

Well, you guys called it. Kudos.

An amusing little detail:

[spoiler]Notice that just before “Xykon” get his head chopped open, he says “Wait- Roy-”.

That’s right; Wish Fulfillment Xykon knows Roy’s name![/spoiler]

Maybe?

Mr Scruffy bought it in there, too.

ETA: Maybe not. I just noticed that Belkar’s alive in the last panel. Oooo…Roy’s gonna be pissed.

And I reckon that’s what will snap him out of it.

BTW note that Roy actually has a strategy, although it remains untested.