Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation)

Well, really though, Redcloak is being just as dumb as V about using disintegrate. This is the second time he’s used it on a paladin without scoring a fatality – using a Fort save spell on a paladin is just as foolish as using one on a dragon.

He’d’ve been better off with a summon, or a blade barrier or something.

Unless he’s using the Quicken Spell feat, any summon monster spell would take one entire round to cast…too long, with a pissed-off paladin breathing down your neck.

Blade barrier or flame strike would probably have done more damage, but I suspect Redcloak was gambling, hoping for a failed save, and an instant kill.

Disintigrate has a number of advantages over other combat spells. First, you do 2d6 per caster level, instead of the normal 1dX. Second, it’s damage cap is 40d6, higher than a lot of spells. Third, it’s magical damage, meaning most things aren’t going to have any resistance to it. Even with the fort save, it’s still going to do a decent amount of damage. Redcloak has taken Destruction as one of his domains, because I’m pretty sure that’s one way a cleric gets to cast Disintigrate.

A summon spell takes a full round to cast, and the effect doesn’t happen until the beginning of the next round. Not something you want to cast while being charged by an angry paladin. With blade barrier, one of two things can happen. First, you cast where the target is, and they get a ref save for no damage and come out of the wall where they want. Second, you cast it in front of them, and they get a ref save for half to pass through it. It does a maximum of 15d6 physical damage, which things like DR can affect. What he needs is a spell that doesn’t have a save, but relies on a hit roll instead. Polar Ray is the only one that comes to mind immediately, but it’s an 8th or 9th level mage spell, not a cleric spell.

Paladins have that extra save vs spells, so magic isn’t the best way to beat them. O’Chul is at a disadvantage vs Redcloak, but not as big a one as you’d think. Once he gets into melee, Redcloak’s options become limited, so we see him flee.

Of course, now what we have is a room with an angry naked paladin wielding a metal pole, a severely hurt elven mage, and a somewhat hurt very powerful lich. Advantage: lich, by a lot.

But the paladin has a pretty valuable bargaining chip.

Not from Zykon’s point of view. If O’Chul tries to threaten the phylactery to get what he wants, Zykon laughs at him, like he did when Redcloak did it. He knows, or at least thinks, he can make another one. Maybe he’s already done so. If O’Chul just smashes the phylactery, he’ll have to kill Zykon before it really matters. Once he destroys it, he’ll have Zykon’s undivided attention, until Zykon destroys him. The bad guys are camped out in a big city full of allies & defenses, plenty of time to make a new phylactery. New plot twists aside, Zykon doesn’t have much to worry about.

I’m not so sure about that. Paladin and weakened wizard vs weakened lich may be fairly close.

O’chul should still have a few smites left(any guess on his class level? i’m thinking 9-12ish) should have 2-3 per day. And a few spells including some healing. Highish saves, though probably not much against an epic lich. And a lay on hands which can be used to damage undead with no saving throw for his charisma modifier * his class level. That could be a fair bit of damage. Assuming Zykon doesn’t know he’s there O’chul & V might be able to finish of Zykon. I doubt it *will *happen but i think it could happen.

And i would love to see where the story goes if Zykon were to die here.

Can a lich make a new phylachtery? I thought that once it was destroyed, that was it, which is why liches are so careful with them.

How funny that this should all come right after our discussion about the telescope: every time we’ve seen Redcloak use it, he’s been holding it to his right eye. Good thing he kept the price tag on it…

No, they aren’t. Not since 2005, anyway, when they stopped publication of the comic book and made it exclusively a webcomic. They still sell books, but those are collections of the webcomic, not the primary publication of them.

First, Zykon can fly. It’s his normal mode of combat. O’Chul can’t. Second, even with the smites, Zykon is fairly resistant to physical damage. A druid polymorphed as a silver dragon wasn’t able to hurt him. Third, Zykon’s main attack spell is Energy Drain. He just has to hit O’Chul a few times and there goes his smites other abilities.

I think what we’re going to see is either O’Chul threatening Zykon’s phylactery, shifting his attention & allowing V to escape, or O’Chul smashing the phylactery, achieving the same thing. Either way, O’Chul is going to die.

Zykon has claimed to be able to, when he laughed off Redcloak’s attempt to control him by threatening the phylactery. And they aren’t exactly following canon rules, as Redcloak made this one, and normally the lich himself has to make it.

I can’t find anything online that says they can. On the other hand, I can’t find anything online that says they can’t, either.

People, it’s Xykon. Give the big evil bastard his due.

I was completely shocked to find a new strip today. Opened up Google and when I saw the announcement on my RSS feed, I ran over to see the latest with a mixture of excitement and dread. And what a payoff! O-chul outdid himself with first virtually shrugging off a Disintegrate, then the smart strategic decision to grab that phylactery. He’s probably got only a few panels left to live, but by God, he’s going out with some major style. Redcloak, meanwhile, disappears like a pussycat. In fairness, he probably did the smartest thing for his temporary survival, but I can’t imagine Xykon is gonna be thrilled that his lackey vanished after having given up the all-important soul repository, leaving Xykon alone and (relatively) vulnerable.

Of course, in addition to O-chul’s incredible fortitude and skill, not to mention strategic wit, he really did luck into a perfect storm of opportunity here: Tsukiko and Jirix leaving, Redcloak walking alone, and Xykon distracted with the thought of putting the sadistic hurt on poor Vaarsuvius.

Speaking of which: man, V. really looks like death. Seeing Xykon flying around with V. in his clutches was scary as hell. Slack-jawed, eyes half-closed (as much as two dots can be in Rich’s drawing style, anyway), unable to protest… yipe. Elf be in trouble. I’m somewhat relieved that Xykon intends to keep V. around, at least long enough to torture. I know that shouldn’t be a good thing, but the longer V.'s of some use to Xykon, the longer s/he can stay alive.

I imagine if something bad happens to his phylactery and V. gets away, Xykon is gonna have a new least favorite member of the Order, even more than Roy. If V. accomplished nothing else with this dumbass decision, at least s/he gave O-Chul the opportunity to attack. Though I doubt that will be a comfort considering V’s beloved arcane magic wasn’t really of use after all.

So I’m holding out hope for a redemption arc now that V has hit rock bottom. We haven’t seen one of those yet: Miko never learned her lesson after similar feats of hubris. If V. is somehow saved by the noble sacrifice of a simple human fighter (with divine magic yet), maybe s/he’ll be humbled enough to take note. I loves me a good, hard, painful, well-earned redemption story.

Silly pointless question: I wonder why V. still has the long hair? All the other trappings of the soul splice have disappeared.

Not O-Chul’s style. If he smashes the phylactery right now and then gets killed by Xykon before he can even hurt him, he’d probably consider that a net positive. And, of course, it’s not even completely out of the question that he might smash it and kill Xykon (even if the odds are rather against him).

And Xykon has already taken somewhere between half of 14d6 and 25d6 from the Sunburst (depending on whether he saved or not, and also depending on what V’s CL counted as for it), plus 10d6 backlash damage from the epic Superb Dispelling spell. I’ll assume that it was 25d6/2 from the Sunburst, for a total average of 78.75 ± 7.69 damage, and Xykon is currently estimated at 27th level, for 27d12 HP, average 175.5 ± 17.94 HP. That leaves him with approximately 96.75 ± 19.51 HP, which makes it very unlikely indeed that he’ll get dusted here.

First, Xykon never claimed to be able to make another one, just that he’d survive if it got destroyed. He wouldn’t be able to come back any more, but that just means he has to be a little more careful about not dying in the future.

Second, phylacteries are magic items, and the rules do allow for multiple characters to collaborate on making magic items, with each meeting some of the prereqs. It looks like what happened was that Redcloak provided the Craft Wondrous Item feat, while Xykon provided the caster level and (presumably) XP cost.

Xykon: Who?

As I noted above, O-Chul should be able to bypass Xykon’s damage reduction (unless Xykon has some manner of DR above and beyond the standard DR 15 / bludgeoning and magic that all liches have).

Or just touch him with Paralyzing Touch (a standard lich ability), which was how O-Chul became Mr. Stiffly in the first place. :slight_smile:

I think there’s two likely options for O-Chul’s next move.

  1. Smash the phylactery.
  2. Whale on Xykon.

Either way, he’s likely to get in one good shot before Xykon unloads on him. I think that that (Xykon blasting O-Chul) will be what causes the CitD to finally act.

On another note, does Redcloak + eyepatch = more badass?

Your math is missing a monster.

Paladin + weakened wizard + MiTD vs weakened lich?

Paladin + weakened wizard vs weakened lich + MiTD?

I’m pretty sure smite doesn’t make an attack magic, the weapon has to be magic. Of course, like I said before, this isn’t strict D&D rules.

Which would put him in melee, and give O’Chul a chance. No reason to bother.

I seriously doubt that the CitD is going to make a direct move against Xykon. He might have had his perception changed enough to help out when the OotS makes their final move on Xykon, but it won’t happen yet.

That’s exactly why i didn’t include him. He’s a complete wildcard. There’s also O’Chul’s possible mount which he should be able to summon if he can spare a turn for it. Though i doubt that’ll come up.