Origin of phrase,'neck of the woods'?

Factual Questions
1

Now I know what “neck of the woods” means, when I drop into my rural persona with people who live in large cities to get a rise out of them, I often use it.

And I can deduce in a general way the origin (a couple of acres in a forest region - probably rather narrow- and probably in the Appilachian Mountains), but the other day a friend asked the actual origin.

She said she had done an extensive search and could not find anything. I said, “If anyone knows, the teeming millions know” (well, probably not all the teeming millions, but probably a few).

So, does anyone know? Or do I have to admit to Karen we are not as smart as I think we are?

TV

2

http://www.wordwizard.com/askww/foundaskww.asp?num=2410

"What is the origin of the expression “neck of the woods”?
Submitted by: V Crawford (Sioux Falls - U.S.A.)

Neck of the woods refers to a narrow stretch of woodland and the phrase (orig. U.S.), means a settlement in wooded country; a small or remotely situated community; a district, neighbourhood, or region."
The key seems to be that it originally referred to a narrow (neck) of woodlands.

3

I appreciate it astro, but to me that is more of a definition than an origin. I think she was interested in something more precise in date and/or geography.

4

According to Bill Bryson in Made in America, the use of “neck” to describe a piece of geography was “clearly influenced by the Algonquian word naiack, meaning a point or corner.”

We also see it in east coast place names like Nyack, NY and Teaneck, NJ.

5

According to the OED, the word “neck” was used to refer to a narrow portion of a mountain, a river, or a isthmus of land sticking out into an ocean before (or maybe simultaneoudly with) the use of it in reference to woods developed. The idea here is that it’s where some geographical feature narrows at one point. As Bryson suggests (but the OED doesn’t mention), it could also be influenced by the Algonquian word. The term thus probably developed in the U.S. in colonial times (and it then changed to meaning “small neighborhood”). That’s probably as close as anybody is going to get to an etymology of the word.

Incidentally, did you try looking up the word in the OED (the Oxford English Dictionary)? Did you try doing a search (say, using the search items “neck of the woods” and “etymology”)? Did you try looking in some standard online etymology sources? It seems to me that we could cut down the amount of such questions asked here if people would do a little research beforehand.

6

Well here’s another cite with a little more info as to etymology but it doesn’t give a specific place/time to the origin of the phrase.

http://www.shu.ac.uk/web-admin/phrases/bulletin_board/4/messages/1252.html
*Here’s a cite with some dates *

http://www.raycomm.com/techwhirl/archives/9907/techwhirl-9907-00018.html

Development of transferred uses of the word ‘neck’:

The neck of a bottle (1460). A neck of land - meaning a peninsula or isthmus (1555). A neck in the mountains - a narrow pass through mountains (1707). A neck of water - a narrow strait between two headlands (1719). A neck ofwoodland or timber - a narrow stretch of woodland (1780).

Interestingly, the OED says that ‘neck of the woods’ is “orig. US”, but the first quote seems to be from an Irish source.

From a narrow stretch of woodland, the expression came to refer to a settlement in wooded country (1871), a remote community (1931?)and finally, to a neighbourhood (1955).
Obviously, while living creatures (and even bottles) tend only to have one neck, stretches of water and woodland can reasonably be said to have several, hence THIS neck of the woods rather than THAT one.

Development of transferred uses of the word ‘neck’:

The neck of a bottle (1460). A neck of land - meaning a peninsula or isthmus (1555). A neck in the mountains - a narrow pass through mountains (1707). A neck of water - a narrow strait between two headlands (1719). A neck of woodland or timber - a narrow stretch of woodland (1780).

Interestingly, the OED says that ‘neck of the woods’ is “orig. US”, but the first quote seems to be from an Irish source.

From a narrow stretch of woodland, the expression came to refer to a settlement in wooded country (1871), a remote community (1931?)and finally, to a neighbourhood (1955).

7

No I didn’t. She said she did a thorough search. I took her at her word. My point was to prove to her that the people of the SDMB were the smartest and most capable around.

…and I might add that I feel I reached my point. Thank you everyone.

8

Lighter cites it first in print in the US thusly:

1839 Spirit of the Times (June 15)175: If yourself and Oliver don’t make folks open their eyes in this neck of the woods(as we say in the Hooshier [sic] State).

And another cite in 1853. So it goes back quite a ways.

9

TV Time writes:

> My point was to prove to her that the people of the SDMB
> were the smartest and most capable around.

You know, we’re not your trained flea that you can pull out of your pocket and have do tricks for you. Anybody who claims to have done a thorough search for the etymology of an English word but who hasn’t even checked the OED clearly doesn’t know what it means to do a thorough search for an etymology. Such a person needs to be trained in the proper research techniques.

We don’t do people’s homework here, and I don’t think we should be constantly answering questions that can be answered with basic research techniques. I actually wouldn’t mind helping someone with their homework if it meant that I could sit down with them and explain how to do the problems, as long as I knew afterwards that they had actually learned the techniques and could henceforth answer the problems themself. When we answer an etymology question, I think we should simultaneously be teaching the person who asks the question how to do the research themself in the future.

10

Wendell, no one was asking anyone to do any homework. She is a woman in her 40s. She probably thought she had done a good search and didn’t. She is not a computer whiz.

You don’t need to fly off the handle. She had a question and I thought it was a nice way to show a friend how knowledgeable the people of Straight Dope are. Unfortunately it seems it was also a way to show how some are not so nice.

I also realize that everyone is a bit frayed at the nerves these days and I will explain that to her.

11

And here’s Random House’s take on it:

12

http://www.oed.com charges out the wazoo for access to the OED:
“The Oxford English Dictionary Online is a subscription service. Access to the Dictionary is only available to users with valid licences.”
a little bit of further research revealed that subscriptions cost “£350+VAT/ US$550 per annum”.

Further research reveals that an unabridged 20-volume copy of the OED costs $995.00 at amazon.com. and that’s at 2/3rds off the original list price of $3000.00.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0198611862/104-6377497-1257525

So, when you tell people that they need to do their homework and consult the OED, I assume you mean the copy at the local public library…assuming public libraries can afford to purchase one.

I, for one, would rather just continue asking simple questions here on the board than hop in my car and drive 15 minutes to a library…or shell out that kind of cash for access to the OED. If you have an easier and/or cheaper way to gain access to the OED, now’s your chance to speak up and enlighten everyone.

Also, if you find yourself feeling like a trained flea when confronted with an “improperly” researched question in the future, please spare us your indignation and simply refuse to reply.

13

Simmer down, now.

We do expect people to do a reasonable amount of research before posting a question in this forum. If fifteen minutes or so of searching the SDMB, Cecil’s columns, Google , the Merriam-Webster Dictionary and Britannica doesn’t yield the answer, then go ahead and post. We do not expect everyone to schlep down to the library to look it up in the OED, the CRC Handbook, and the Journal of Human Sexuality.

And if you object to the suitability of a question, you are under no compulsion to answer it.

bibliophage
moderator, GQ