Our Buddies, the Pakistanis - (except for the child slavery thing, of course)

From the SF Chronicle:

Luckily, Pakistan has no oil, so we don’t need to get upset :rolleyes:

Right, because child slavery has been the rallying cry for so very many US invasions. :rolleyes:

What’s it like being wrong so often, happyheathen?

Well, we decry the Iraqi treatment of its starving children - I figured that we must be ready to go do war with any dictator with WMD who allowed his citizens to be so abused.

Was I wrong? Is there some substantive difference (besides oil)?

Yes, namely that the government of Pakistan does not condone child slavery, and makes efforts to halt its practice.

On the other hand, Iraq is run by a psychotic dictator who regularly slaughters his own people.

[sub]tee-hee. every effort[/sub]

Well, every effort they reasonably can … There are tremendous religious and cultural conflicts in Pakistan, and excessively heavy-handed actions by the government are likely to result in widespread civil disorder. Also, most of the agents of the government are from the relatively civilized south, and get little cooperation in investigations in the more backwards parts of the country.

I was shocked, personally, that Pakistan so quickly offered their support of our invasion of Afghanistan. Not that the Pakistani government wouldn’t want to ally with us, but I was sure that they’d be afraid of the potential repercussions in their country … Crazy like foxes, they were, actually. The anti-government factions rapidly became anti-US factions, and this took a lot of pressure off of their government. I saw a number of reports of large volunteer forces picking up old rifles and marching from Pakistan to Afghanistan to support the Taliban. The Pakistani government formally condemned the practice, but I’m sure that deep in their hearts, they were thrilled. “Bye-bye! Have a nice vacation! Don’t forget to write … your last will and testament! Hee-hee!”

For those interested in events in Pakistan:


(note that this site exists only to the extent that the rulers allow)

The government of Pakistan is a military dictatorship which actively supported the Taliban through both its military and intelligence agencies.
It has provided shelter for both the Taliban and AQ, and support for the Muslim separatists in Kashmir, and probably the folks who attacked the Indian Parliment.

This is a bunch of thugs with nukes (and an easy route for an oil pipeline to Arabian Sea) which is quite happy to promote inter-tribal violence, and ignores the “excesses” unless/until the US sees fit to jerk its chain.

We are about to attack Iraq (which used to be our buddy) for much less egregious behaviour - this reminds me of Vietnam - Ho Chi Minh was evil (but popular, for some reason, with his countrymen), while Theiu and Ky were wonderful people (who, for some reason, were hated by their countrymen). The bright side, this time, is that no one (except maybe Cheney’s buddies) are going to provide enough weapons to Iraq to fight back. The morality, however is the same.

As is the general level of the foreign policy.

This is the kind of foreign policy thinking, by the way, that made Iran hate us so badly. We supported a pro-Western, progressive military dictatorship that trod the people underfoot, because their chief dude high-fived us and let us do whatever we liked.

And then they threw the bastard out, and we stand here wondering why they hate us…

I don’t think so, excluding the “about to attack Iraq” part. You may be dead right on that.

Iraq was used as a counterweight against the post-Shah radical religious government in Iran. I don’t recall anyone ever saying anything friendly about Saddam Hussein.

Sometimes there is no good choice, and the lesser of the evils is still quite evil. Our dealings with Pakistan are out of military necessity, not intended to be an endorsement of everything that goes on there.

Perhaps George Washington was right about “entangling alliances” after all.

I totally agree that child slavery is appalling.

But there have been very public efforts by the authorities here in the United Arab Emirates to raise the age of jockeys.

From Gulf News:

And last September, an official ban began on using jockeys younger than 15.

Try these links from Gulf News:

Cabinet set to endorse camel race draft law
Ban on young camel jockeys welcomed
Child jockey ban busters face fine, jail
Mission rescues Bangladeshi kids

I also wanted to add: I have driven past Nad Al Sheba (where the horse and camel race tracks are in Dubai) and had to stop for a herd of camels and small boy riders to pass. These boys were younger than 15, as far as I could tell. On the bright side, they looked as happy and healthy as any other small boys - they certainly weren’t being beaten, starved or ill-treated.

The only stick being used was on the poor old camels! but then they are temperamental and stubborn beasts :wink:

It should be noted that the Gulf News is about as independant and objective as Pravda under Breshnev. It is the (oligarcy) government’s mouthpiece.

Thumbnail of UAE:


Yes happy - but the important point is that (a) the issue is in the public domain, and (b) the highest ruler on high has decreed it is wrong.

That’s a hugely significant step for this place. If they didn’t want to deal with it, and they didn’t want to change it, it would be just be hushed up. Witness the recent incident involving a French woman who reported a gang-rape in Dubai and was then jailed for adultery (search http://news.google.com for “Dubai rape”). Not a WHISPER of that got into the papers here, I found out from friends overseas.

Lovely country you’ve got there (if you like feudal fascism).

My point was Pakistan, and the US’s ability to attack a country because it might become what a “buddy” country already is.

Of course you are wrong. You’re almost never right, you simple-minded chowderhead.

Who condemns the Iraqi government for starving its children? Where are the headlines? Where are the government officials claiming this is a reason for attacking Iraq?

You’re an idiot. Please stick to drooling on yourself and keep away from such things as foreign policy or trying to post intelligent comments on a message board…things you clearly do not have the intellectual capacity for.

The US supports Pakistan right now because they have cooperated when we told them to on things that matter to us at the present time. It may or may not be a wise policy in the long-run. And in any case, a government’s treatment of its own citizens has never been a cause for the US to go to war. Never has, probably never will.

Please learn something, and then feel free to post your opposition to the war on Iraq. There are lots of good reasons, no need for you to set up strawmans. Of course, that’s pretty much all you do, so I don’t expect changes.

You’ve never noticed the outcry re. Iraqi human rights abuses?

And I’m too stupid to talk on foreign policy? Riiight, bozo.

For starters:


happy - I am very happy you are happy and have a happy belief in your government’s integrity.

However I do not believe they are going to war with Iraq for poor little Iraqi children. Not for one NANOsecond.

And yes - feudal fascism or not - it is an extraordinarily nice place to live here. I can leave expensive camera gear in my car book and it doesn’t get broken open. I can walk at night without fear of mugging and rape. I can even leave my front door or a window open with no fear of burglary. I pay no tax.

For locals it is even better - free health. Free education. Plenty of loans and grants and training to get into business. Subsidised amenities bills.

Plenty wrong here too, but plenty right. Largely thanks to the truly excellent leadership of Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nayhan. Without any formal education, and reportedly illiterate (he can neither read nor right) he has led his people from the desert sands to a bright and hope-filled modern future and is revered by locals and expats alike. He has never let money or power or oil go to his head, he has led an long and uncorrupt and just life, and is a true man of the people.

Yeah - with a monarchy you can end up with a dud. But you can also be lucky enough to end up with Sheikh Zayed. I feel privileged to have lived under the leadership of this truly great man during my stay here.

Read it. Didn’t read anything about any accusations saying they are engaging in child slavery or decrying their starving children. Once again, you come up short.

Shock of shocks.

istara -

I have “a happy belief in your government’s integrity”?

Maybe re-read this thread?

Neurotik -

Why do YOU think the “no-fly zones” are there?

and from the first paragraph on the front page of the link:

Or have forgotten the gassing of the Kurds and the denial of food to the Shiites?
You know, all those nasty things for which we were supposed to hate Saddam, before Shrub II escalated the rhetoric to WMD (yet to be proven).

Meanwhile, back at the OP: Pakistan is a bigger nasty than Iraq, but for some (oil) reason, we want to attack Iraq. Hummm…

and for an overview: (slightly slanted, but what isn’t these days)