Our town's anthrax scare....

The BBQ Pit
21

‘victimless’ crimes?

With the possible exception of a few statues in somes states barring certain consentual acts between adults (Don’t get me started) I don’t think there are any victimless crimes.

Durg possession, ever seen what someone on PCP can do to others around them?

How about this hypothetical, <random person> gets drunk in a field in the middle ot nowhere. Gets in his truck to drive back to his cabin 3 miles away, on his way home looses control and slams into a rock wall at 130 miles an hour. They bury his hand, the only intact part of his body.
No victim, therefor no crime and the cops shouldn’t waste time with it. Would it be the same if he was pulled over but wasn’t speeding and driving as well as anyone else on the road? Is it a crime yet? Or is it only a crime when he plows into a family of 15 on their way to chruch?

Laws and public justice only work when all of the individuals are treated with the best approximation of equality. I’m not going to even touch the prostitution bit… this lab monkey doesn’t wanna get flamed from here to eternity.

However I’ve gotta point out some of the ‘sodomy’ laws are quite unnessecary. WHY IS IT ILLEGAL TO HAVE THE WOMAN ON TOP!?! For christsake if you are in your own house/apartment/dormroom you should be able to go hog wild with what ever willing paticipant you have. (disregarding how you aquired said willing paticipant)

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From what I hear, such hoaxers can be made to pay for all the emergency response (& other associated monetary expenses) that they caused. That’s a pretty good start. Then add a dash of ‘tampering with the federal mail’.

We had someone do a similar hoax in my town, only worse. Complete idiots…excuse me, I mean a-holes. How are we supposed to deal with the real problem when we have to deal with all these hoaxes?

23

Ever seen what someone on Jack Daniels can do to others around them?

As I read his post, Macro Man was saying that possession of heroin (for example) is a victimless crime, not drunk driving. Possession of any of todays “illegal drugs” is no different from possession of Budweiser.

So wait, are you saying that you favor prohibition?

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CRorex:

I stand by my point about victimless crimes. If the aforementioned PCP addict hurt others around him, punishment should be swift and severe. I think alcohol causes more injury to innocent people in this world than all other drugs combined, and it’s legal.

But it’s illegal for me to get drunk and beat my wife. This is appropriate. If we decriminalized drugs and prostitution, I’m pretty sure we’d have the space to throw that violent PCP addict in prison until the fucker is 90 years old. Same thing for the violent drunk. Ditto the violent sober guy.

And if you’re driving drunk but are driving OK, of course you’re still committing a crime. The victim is public safety as a whole and the crime is the fact your BAC is greater than allowed by law. If I reach an agreement to buy sex for $100 with another consenting adult, there is no public safety issue. At the most, it is private safety, in that I could catch a disease. If I walked into a 7-11 and bought a bag of pot (assuming it were legal), went home, and smoked it, there was no public safety issue to be concerned with. The main public safety issues arise when people (pimps/drug dealers) profit from the sale of ILLEGAL substances. You never hear of a beer deal going bad, and the beer pusher shooting his customer over a $20 bottle of beer. Remove the incentive to profit from victimless illegal activity, and remove the violence that surround the trade of the activity. Funnel the money we’d of spent incarcerating these people into drug treatment, prevention, and severe penalties for violent criminals (including those addicted to drugs) and the country would be that much better.

As far as sodomy laws go, thy’re just religious based and idiotic. Nothing more to say.

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Marco Man

You missed my point

My point was that there can be victimless crimes that are 99.999999% of the time crimes with victims. What I was trying to point was that you cannot set up a fair criminal justice system where only those crimes with victims are punishable. What about the exact same crime with a victim? Legally you can take all the money you want from a joint account, legally I can leave the country. Is it illegal to do that to my spouse?

Sigh, lovely ways of reading what I say then making up random stuff.

Whatever, I don’t really care. Go ahead and push for making all drugs legal, it won’t really change any problems. It will just make drug related crimes have lesser punishments since you then can’t differenciate between a drug related theft or murder from a normal theft or murder.

Any where did I ever mention a violent drunk? I specified 3 types of drunk driver, dangerous to himself, nobody and another vehicle. According to the ‘victimless crime of pot possession’ I didn’t hurt myself, I didn’t hurt others so the second example would be on the face legal.

To make the application of a law to be a subjective matter on based off the perseption of a ‘victim’ would destroy the balance of law.

Where did you get that I was in favor of prohibition?

If you guys want to pick a fight go urinate on a biker.

26

You missed my point

My point was that there can be victimless crimes that are 99.999999% of the time crimes with victims. What I was trying to point was that you cannot set up a fair criminal justice system where only those crimes with victims are punishable. What about the exact same crime with a victim? Legally you can take all the money you want from a joint account, legally I can leave the country. Is it illegal to do that to my spouse?

Sigh, lovely ways of reading what I say then making up random stuff.

Whatever, I don’t really care. Go ahead and push for making all drugs legal, it won’t really change any problems. It will just make drug related crimes have lesser punishments since you then can’t differenciate between a drug related theft or murder from a normal theft or murder.

Any where did I ever mention a violent drunk? I specified 3 types of drunk driver, dangerous to himself, nobody and another vehicle. According to the ‘victimless crime of pot possession’ I didn’t hurt myself, I didn’t hurt others so the second example would be on the face legal.

To make the application of a law to be a subjective matter on based off the perseption of a ‘victim’ would destroy the balance of law.

Where did you get that I was in favor of prohibition? Next thing you’ll be accusing me of wanting to ban green coloured socks on alternate fridays.

Btw, ever tried to drive on the highway stoned?
Or on cocaine?
I’m sure it would be so much safer than doing so sober.

But hey, potsmoking is a victimless crime. Until someone gets hurt.

Agree or disagree with me as you wish, I don’t give a damn since this isn’t ever going to be a situation I’ll ever have to deal with. Just try to understand my point, its not hard

27

CRorex,

We are truly not communicating. I have not made up any random facts/opinions, and then attributed them to you. Please read my post more carefully.

If you take all the money from your bank account and leave the country, that may or may not be a crime (it should, but the joint property laws may vary). The point is, you’d be doing an injustice to another individual, and therefore it’s not a victimless crime, in my opinion. If you drive a car intoxicated, you are creating an unsafe environment, and therefore are victimizing everyone in your community. Drug abuse in tangental to other crimes, and I believe it is those other crimes that should be illegal. Either that, or make all mind-altering drugs illegal, including alcohol.

The example of the drunk who drives OK endangers the public’s well-being, in that despite he “drives ok” he is much more prone to an accident than a sober person.

I mentioned the violent drunk, in that I believe that any violent person, whether drunk, on PCP, or sober, should be severely punished. This is a direct reference to your post.

I don’t believe you should differentiate between a crime committed while intoxicated versus a crime committed while sober. In fact, if victimless crimes were legal, you could then make stiffer penalties for all crimes, given that people are no longer incarcerated for victimless crimes and the ensuing victimed crimes that invariable surround them.

I never said you were in favor of prohibition.

I don’t do cocaine, I don’t smoke pot, and I don’t drive when I’m intoxicated in any way. Because doing so would endanger myself and others, and it’s illegal. Even if I drive ok and make it home safe, every time.

You must have a system that attributes crimes with specific harm to other individuals. I can’t see how you cannot! If you can’t point out how my actions are harming someone else’s welfare/well-being, then leave the me fuck alone to do whatever I please.

I don’t know you and therefore have no interest in picking a fight. In fact, you started this shit by trying to call me out on the “victimless crime” comment. So either read my posts more closely, or stop being purposely obtuse.

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I’m not talking about you :stuck_out_tongue: Silly hippie
I’m talking about beelzebubba, whom interjected a whole pile of randomness which I didn’t state and misunderstood random hypotheticals, who said I was against prohibition.

I didn’t entend for the post with your name at the beginning to be sent, I thought I clicked the stop button in ime. I started out adressing what you said then couldn’t stop laughing at Bellzebubba’s post and got sidetracked.
And you still haven’t gotten the point of my post.
You proposed to get rid of victimless crimes.

I’m trying to say that by making presence, or preception of a victim as a qualifier for a crime MAKES THE LEGAL SYSTEM UNJUST.

Yeah I used bad examples. But I’m not a lawyer.
The whole, sole, only, entire point i was trying to make is: (all together boys and girls).

Just cause 99% of the time there is no victim associated with a crime don’t mean that there won’t always be.

And for that 1% when there is a crime, say that pot smoker gets high gets behind a wheel then kills a family I’m gonna be damn happy that he can get charged with DUI, Vehicular Homicide, Possession, Murder 2 (or whatever depraved indifference falls under). Then he can get his ass raped in prison until he’s too old to bend over. If we make pot legal then we get DUI and Vehicular Homicide. (Thats if I’m reading these bloody statutes right… stupid web site)

Stop trying to read so much into it.

You keep pointing out that you want the violent guy locked up. Yay! If we keep the drug laws on the books then we can lock him up even longer.

Man, I try to point out one little thing to keep the world a fair and just place and see what happens. :stuck_out_tongue:
Beelzebubba,

About the Jack. Sure they normally puke all over themselves. Its not my fault you have friends who get violent when they drink… You shouldn’t drink if that happens. As to your other comment… Sure:P whatever.

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CRorex:

Understand the double post. My whole point of view can be summed up as this:

Picking my toenails is not a crime. It’s gross, and I’m sure you don’t wanna see it, but it’s not a crime in itself. If I am picking my toes, yankk it off too close to the nailbed, get pissed, and kick you in the nuts, that’s a crime. I should be punished for the kicking, not the picking. Certain things that are currently illegal are my own damned business: money for sex, drugs, and sodomy, to name a few. Luckily I can still pick my toes.

I cannot think of any reason I should not be able to sit on my couch and smoke pot. Or do cocaine. Or drink a beer. (I would only do to do the last one, however).

The person who is intoxicated with drugs and causes someone harm/endangers some should suffer severe penalties. Same as someone who gets drunk and does the same thing. I don’t think it makes a difference whether he’s charged with four crimes (DUI, Vehicular Homicide, Possession, Murder 2) or three (DUI, Vehicular Homicide, Murder 2), or one, as long as the punishment is severe. In fact, we could make the punishment much more severe if we decriminalized the aforementioned crimes and focused on what causes specific harm to the community.

BTW, I consider myself a non-drug-doing (because they’re illegal), poorly-dressed, much-in-debt, yuppie. Definitely not a hippy, although I am liberal.

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:stuck_out_tongue: Silly hippie, watch more south park. Cartman (the fat kid) is afriad of hippies and it became a popculture reference at my college.
Dunno whats funnier, someone who’se self description sounds like they just got out of college not getting a south park reference, or getting offended by being called a hippie.

Ya know what, this whole thing can be summed up fairly easilly.

You don’t think we should have victimless crimes.

I don’t give a damn.

I just had a nitpicky point about how you can’t have justice when you have subjective crimes.

THAT WAS MY WHOLE POINT!!! I can’t quite use crayon on a post but if I could I’d cover my whole body with this message in crayon… Ohh covered in crayon. Hell, if I could I’d rearrange the stars in the sky to spell this message out. THAT WAS THE ONLY POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE. EVERYTHING ELSE IS DRIVEL!

ARRRRG

And to top it alloff I’ve got another 45 min before I can leave work! I had 15 fucking min of stuff to do first thing in the moring and I’ve spent the last 7 hours sitting on my ass looking out my office window, which looks at another window which looks on the same damn thing. What the hell is a window if what outside the window is as interesting as a wall?

Why can’t today be friday?

I have less to do friday.

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Man, for someone who doesn’t give a damn, you sure do put alot of effort into your posts!

BTW, it’s “god damn hippies!” not “silly hippies”. And he’s not afraid of them, he just hates them. And he’s not fat, he’s big-boned, goddammit! Get the SP references right before you start tossing them in around this group.

I think the only person that’d take offense by calling me a hippie would be the hippies themselves! <<<I’d stick in some smiley face here, but do not quite know how to do that yet>>>.

Heheheh… I have tomorrow off. Enjoy work tomorrow, sucker! Maybe if you work really hard and kiss the bosses ass, you can get promoted to head window-looker, with a corner office and several windows to look out of. <<Again, some sort of animated smiley face inserted here>>>.
I’m gonna go have some cheesie poofs. Cheesie poof are cuwel!

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[tangent]My Cartman spent yesterday lying on his back, like the big whale that he is, whimpering, “He’p me…Please he’p me…Somebody put me out of my misery!” Finally Hagrid gave him the Heimlich maneuver, and he ralphed up all the candy he’d binged on. He’s much better now.[/tangent]