Outgrowing music... is it bound to happen?

Cafe Society
1

Hello all,

I speak as a serious music listener, a musician, and the youngest employee in a traditionally-conservative workplace. I’m not even sure what I want to articulate, but I keep thinking of that car commercial where the young businessman picks up the older people from the airport, and he’s acting all professional until the car stereo is accidentally turned on, and some loud heavy metal blares out. The older executives in the car look mortified and the young guy is embarrassed, like he’s not supposed to be into that stuff anymore. I think the tag-line is even something like “A car for grown-ups. Almost.”

It’s pretty clear that rock ‘n’ roll started out as rebellious, youth-oriented music, but then the aging baby boomers kept the music of their youth close to their hearts. When I think about people paying $500 for tickets to see acts like the Rolling Stones or Paul McCartney, I can’t help but roll my eyes and laugh, and think of crowds of 40+ year-old professionals with ponytails and ancient concert T-shirts and way too much disposable income, acting like they’re the coolest people ever. I can’t imagine too many kids and teenagers being into that stuff, or being able to afford to go even if they were. So they have music of their own that they eventually outgrow.

I had an old boss who worshipped all that classic rock (Bob Seger, etc) and made fun of me when I’d bring in CDs to listen to with headphones–stuff like Mike Ness, Morphine, Portishead, and even Brian Setzer Orchestra. My uncle, a pretty stereotypical “yuppie,” has a CD collection that includes a lot of adult contemporary, smooth jazz, and the most bland, inoffensive, safe rock bands. He still thinks Elton John rocks hard, and has never even heard of long-standing artists like Tom Waits, Elvis Costello, or Joe Jackson, all known for being more relevant and musically-credible than John, and most of whom have been around since the ‘70s as well. A judge I used to clerk for thought Josh Groban was just about the greatest thing ever, and admitted to being driven to tears by Celine Dion. Driven to tears! I won’t even get started on my parents’ musical tastes (or lack thereof), but they’ve always expressed skepticism that I could still haul myself out to clubs to see live music, or to go to the trouble of seeking out artists that aren’t spoon-fed to me by the radio.

But here I am, 27 years old, still obsessed with seeking out great new bands, especially underground and truly “independent” acts that most people don’t get exposed to from the radio. I love going to shows, but I rarely (if ever) see older people at the shows I go to–I guess they’re all seeing McCartney at the stadium. Do these people look down their noses at more modern or “cutting-edge” music, or do they just not care? I know that I feel like a real minority, considering I’m now a so-called professional with a real job, and I feel like I have more in common with college students regarding my interests and pastimes. Maybe I’m just surrounded by a more serious crowd of older adults, but it seems to me that not only do they not GET how I could be into music like I am, they think it’s silly, or cute, or amusing, like if I was still into finger-painting. I wonder if I’ll still be 40 and wanting to go check out bands at the local rock clubs, or if I’ll feel like I’ve outgrown it, or if I’ll want to go but feel too “lame,” or if one day I’ll wake up and realize my musical tastes WERE silly, and all of a sudden I’ll love Sarah Brightman and Bob Seger and Sade and Neil Diamond. And then I’ll know I’ve grown up.

2

Lou, I can’t say what’ll happen to you, but I can tell you what happened to me.

You may have read here that I collect records and CDs. That started in 1963. Over time, I became a rabid music fan, soaking it up like a sponge. I’d listen to the radio all my hours awake and write down the names and artists of songs I liked, then I’d go find the record. I learned to play instruments because I wanted to be just like these guys on the records, and maybe even be one of them someday. By the mid-'70s when disco began to happen, I started to check out the roots of the music I was buying, to find out what the music these artists were influenced by, sounded like. While immersed in that, punk music came and went. I never heard any of it. I was getting to know people and being turned on to music they liked, and buying that, and finding out about artists that never got on the radio who were also great.

Then I went to work in radio. One of my original, naive reasons for wanting to do that was so I could be part of this great music machine. Only by the time I got there, it was becoming mighty insipid, and it was turning me off. Rather than listen to minimalist boop-beep synthesizer pop music or heavy metal, I started to collect every song I knew. While that went on, hair bands came and went. When I came up from that period for air, and turned on the radio, I was absolutely repulsed by what I heard. This was nothing like the music I was weaned on. It didn’t speak to me, it didn’t entertain me. Back to collecting.

During most of these years, I also played live music and did sessions. I was completely immersed in playing this music, and writing my own, and didn’t listen to the radio because I didn’t want to be ripping anybody off or sounding “current” - I wanted to develop a sound. When that period was over, popular music had been replaced by boy bands, and grunge, and rap. None of this music appealed to me. What happened? I grew up. I realized that I had grown out of the demographic. The current music was not being marketed to me, and they didn’t care whether I liked it or not. I was irrelevant to the music machine.

All of those thousands and thousands of records I bought were because there was something about the song that spoke to me and made me want to go out and buy it. I am sorry to report that there has been only one song I have liked enough to buy the CD since the end of the 1980s, which we have discussed: “She’s Electric” by Oasis. I feel cheated that current music doesn’t appeal to me anymore. I don’t know any music of this century; none of it that I’ve heard made me want to buy it or check it out some more.

I refuse to listen to pap. I will not listen to Celine Dion or Yanni or Richard Clayderman or anything new age or that could be described as “aural wallpaper” just because I’m middle-aged. When I go home, I listen to the music that made me want to be a part of it. I listen to the people who invented and refined the genres that made me take up the guitar, bass and drums. I really like whatever it is my brain interprets as “greatness.” I haven’t heard any “greatness” in a very long time. It seems the music that was so important to me is now dismissed as the music of grandparents.

The other day, we were out for dinner at a swanky restaurant. They had a pianist. He was playing “aural wallpaper” renditions of the most insipid music of the '70s. A couple of people in their 50s had to interrupt him to tell him how amazing he was. I commented to the person beside me that it was not so long ago that these folks listened to Led Zeppelin and Grand Funk Railroad and Deep Purple. Now they were fawning over a guy who did Liberace to The Carpenters. I wanted to throw up.

So no, you don’t have to be worried that your taste will disappear. The music you grew up on will be the the soundtrack on your internal jukebox. Don’t expect to hear anything replace it, because it may not happen. Someday, you will hate the music that kids like. I think that’s part of the process. When I get to the old folks’ home, they will have to put up with my King Crimson and Dave Edmunds and Pink Floyd and whatever else it is. I’ll still be listening to it.

“I have become my parents. I have my period and I stick with it. I like rock and roll, man, and not much else.” - John Lennon

3

I’m 31, and I think all this new stuff is “for the crazy kids”. I haven’t stayed up with the latest music so I feel a bit out of it. Music today doesn’t really do much for me anymore.

4

I’m with you, Lou.

I listen to what I like. Old, new, top 40, indy, the lot. I’m not quite so active about seeking out music I haven’t heard before - I get enough passively - being sent music by friends, watching Cliptrip, discussing the music I like with others, and so forth - but I see no reason to fossilize or restrict your taste.

5

Like fishbicycle says, you’ll still like what you like, it’ll just be harder to find. But you don’t have to give up on new music entirely. True, you may not like what the kids like, but there will probably still be new music being made out there you like, it’ll just be harder to find.

The people that love Celine Dion didn’t like “edgy” indie music even when they were young. They don’t like her because they got old but because they always liked crap.

I do think your passion for music sometimes fades as you get older tho’. I was always really into music and worked at a record store for 10 years (BTW, I’m 37 until Thursday). But years of listening to crap at the store kinda burned me out enough that I don’t listen to music much at home. Conversely, once I quit the music store business, I no longer had access to much new music that isn’t played on the radio. I still peruse CMJ but I buy maybe 24 CDs a year compared to the 100s I used to.

6

I hear ya…I mean it’s not like when I was in college when all the kids were listening to Green Day and Snoop Dogg. I mean it’s not U2’s still out touring…right?

7

This is the key point here. If at this point you’re not content to just listen to whatever the local radio stations feed you, you probably never will be. I think that as time goes on, you will be impressed by new music less and less for a couple reasons:

  1. The amount of time that you can devote to the music search will drop significantly, so you’ll hear less and less of what’s out there.

  2. If you buy a lot of stuff, your back catalog will probably be shrinking faster than new entries are coming in. There was a lot of music made in the 80s, but the amount is fixed.

  3. As you hear more and more music, you’re going to start being a little more picky about what you listen to. There are albums in my collection that I only could’ve bought when I was just starting out in their genre.

8

Lou, Elton John does rock out, all his stuff before, say, Philadelphia Freedom. He dominated the airwaves for a good while, and deservedly. It’s ridiculous to say he has less 'credibility" (what the hell is that, anyway?) that Waits, Costello, or Joe Jackson (whose first two albums I wore out and I now have on CD). Gripe over.

I think it should be borne in mind that there are 2 different kinds of folks who listen to music. To some, it’s pleasant aural stimulation. To others, it’s as important as the air we breathe. I’m imagining that to the first group, it very well may seem “immature” to listen to the music of their youth, and like many other things they consume, threy see no need to question what’s pumped into them. (That’s a very broad generalization, but I can’t be bothered to rewrite it so it differentiates between those who don’t care about music and the consumer-borgs.)

I’m 41. I played the trumpet through high school, and after college in a band. I sang in church choir and college chorale. I have 1500 CD’s. Music remains one of my most basic needs. But, you know? My tastes have changed. I haven’t outgrown some music so much as I’ve expanded my tastes, but I have outgrown some stuff. At 16, I worshipped the Doors. Now I find them sophomoric. I used to collect obscure 60’s psychedelia. Now I don’t care for it so much. I found a copy of the Nice’s* Ars Longa Vita Brevis *recently, and after a listenthrough, I thought, “Man, this sucks. What did I see in it?” Cool cover though. And I can’t say I won’t buy The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack if I see a copy.

I used to listen to a lot of reggae, but I stopped smoking weed and it doesn’t speak to me anymore. I used to listen to a lot of blues, but it doesn’t grab me in the boo-boo like it did when I was a drinking man. I listen to mostly jazz now. But I’m still as engaged with and as passionate about music as I ever was. My new kick is doo-wop and 60’s soul. I can’t get enough of it; it reminds me of what was on the radio when I was a kid.

Maybe the difference between them and us is that they can’t be bothered with music that is challenging in any way. I don’t know. I think that for some people, the business of making a living, raising a family, maintaining their social status, etc., leaves little to no room in their brains for much anything else. Therefore, Celine and Co. move in because that kind of music takes up no space.

I guess I’m done for now. Hope this makes a little sense.

9

Upon review, tremor and ultra posted more cogent replies as I labored over my lengthy post.

10

I’m in my early 40’s, played in bands and frequented clubs well into my 30’s. One reason I don’t go out anymore is that I have a family I’d rather hang out with. Also, I don’t want to stay up late waiting for the headliner then drag my ass to work the next morning. It doesn’t get any easier as you get older. Or less expensive.

Nothing against the new acts. If my curosity is piqued somehow, like by a movie soundtrack or something I heard on the radio, I’ll go download it and enjoy it that way. There’s also no shortage of concert footage on DVD or otherwise from the bigger ‘new’ acts that I can enjoy at home.

I do feel the tug from time to time, though.

As you get older and enter the wider world, you’ll see most people are alien to your commitment to and love of music and are even more alien to being able to play a musical instrument. A lot of people actually appreciate it.

Some bands have come and gone in my listening over the years, and some have stayed from day one. I don’t think I’ve ever gone back, listened to something from my youth and thought “god, I can’t believe I used to listen to this crap.” I just grew out of it.

One thing I did grow out of, thankfully, was my stupid youthful snobbery. So there’s a lot of music that I missed when I was a pup that I’m enjoying now.

11

What tremorviolet and ultrafilter said.

Also, bear in mind that people have different mechanisms for expressing novelty-seeking behavior. You check out lots of new music; other people do different things. Going to a club isn’t necessarily more (or less) valid than, I dunno, going skiing. So people who listen to crappy music and don’t mind it just happen to have different priorities than you do.

And FWIW, I’m 35 and I still go out to clubs a lot. Not as much as I used to, granted, but still way more than the average person.

BTW, if you haven’t read The Tipping Point yet, you might find it interesting.

12

Well, I’m 38 and getting awfully damned close to 39, which as we all know is perilously near decrepit.

That said, though, I went and saw Social Distortion recently and was blown away by the sheer numbers of older people. And by “older” I mean people who were fiftyish and were pumped at the idea of catching Social D one more time. There were also a lot of kids who were, I’m guessing, no older than fourteen or so. And everyone was excited. I think that if the band or artist is doing something that others consider worthwhile, then they will continue to be popular.

In the same vein, when I saw Joe Jackson five or so years ago, it was what a friend and I referred to as a “grown up rock ‘n’ roll show”. There were actaully seats that corresponded to the tickets, and people stayed seated quite often. Ditto when Elvis Costello came through with Steve Nieve some time back. And the people who were there were mostly cootish like me. Of course, the last time Elvis came with the Imposters, it was what I think of as a club-like show. Just in a really big venue. Here’s to hoping that it’ll be much the same when I see him again in August.

And fates bless and keep Richard Thompson, who rocks out like someone 1/3 of his age.

So no, I don’t think that you’ll necessarily outgrow your tastes and begin appreciating crap. At least, I haven’t. And I still like to go catch bands at the local clubs. Fortunately, the terminally hip don’t give me too much trouble for doing so. They probably figure that I’ll be dead soon, so best to let me enjoy what time I have left.

Waste

13

For me it’s a combination of several things. Working and going to school full time has reduced my social life bigtime. Hanging out at a friend’s house was always a good way to get turned on to new stuff. I haven’t watched MTV in a few years, because I couldn’t stand it anymore. I don’t buy as many CD’s as I used to, and I don’t keep up with bands I used to listen to.

14

I’m 34, and just over a week ago I saw Built To Spill and I was one of the older people in the crowd. Last weekend I saw My Morning Jacket (world’s greatest live band), Bob Mould, Son Volt and Jason Mraz, and was among the youngest there. The difference is, the latter show was sponsered by WXPN, a public station that plays more unknown music, and has an older demographic. So in that case, ther were plenty of Boomers rocking out to new music (except zbob Mould).

In a few weks I’ll see Modest Mouse, and I’m guessing I’ll be on the older side.

I still listen to lots of new bands and not so much to the bands I liked when younger. A good example is Rush. I was the worlds biggest Rush fan growing up, but now, most of their post-1985 music sounds very dated and doesn’t hold up for me. I’ve moved on.

15

I suspect that they do look down their noses at the more cutting-edge music. But don’t you think thats a good thing? There’s nothing more cringe-worthy than seeing a 50 year old grandfather pretending to be a teenager.

Also, don’t you look down your nose at their music? Celine Dion, Elton John, Paul McCartney etc?

16

For one thing, there’s really not a whole lot of “cutting edge” music. Have there truly been many new genres of music (and I don’t mean hairsplitting sub-genres) since the 1980s? Punk isn’t new, speedmetal isn’t, goth isn’t, dance isn’t, rap isn’t. You can’t point to a single act now that doesn’t have a sound-alike sometime in the 1980s. I never listened to top 40 radio; started listening to college radio at the tail end of when that still meant something. So I’ve never been into popular music for my peer group.

I’m 34, and a rabid music collector (mostly vinyl). Thousands of LPs, thousands of 45s, (maybe 100 78s!), probably several hundred CDs. I started with punk rock, back in about 1984 when even hardcore was already half a decade old (and that’s a one way street musically at that… “you can play 4/4 fast, congrats”). From there I asked where the stuff came from and got deeply into 60s garage, which I still love today. Related to that was the psych and pop of the era. So I ask where all that comes from and get into 50s rock’n’roll and 40’s r’n’b, folk from the 60s and earlier. From there I went to 20s and 30s delta blues and early jazz, and random weirdness like ‘exotica’ and old novelty records. I’ve also branched out to music from Turkey, Cambodia, Bollywood. Latin America… especially the older pop, folk and rock sounds. I never run out of ‘new’ releases becaise I’m interested in so much stuff, even if those genres ended decades ago.

I really don’t go out to see live music much anymore at all. Maybe once/year, and just to be social. Most of the people I’d like to see perform are dead. Most live shows now are expensive and feature crap acts. The older I get the less I like overpaying for beer and having my ears ringing after hearing no-talents. (An exception to this is a jazz band with an average age of 78 who I see about once/week at a local watering hole without a cover; THAT is enjoyable! And it doesn’t require bouncers…)

In short the more I learn about music, the more I like my parents’ (and grandparents’!) music. Even though, by and large, they don’t any longer! I rarely listen to music made after 1972, and when I do it’s the earlier releases of the punk/post-punk giants so imitated (poorly) now.

I do think that what others have said is true - people who aren’t really into music or aren’t careful listeners will swallow whatever they think should be age-appropriate. People who really get into it will develop cranky old man tastes like mine and stick with it.

17

I’m 48, and like to think that I have rather broad taste in music. I can listen to the Beatles or even the Monkees, change over to the Grateful Dead, and finish up with the Sex Pistols and the Ramones. If it appeals to me, I’ll listen to it.I agree with the previous posts–concerts today are more expensive than they’re worth. I don’t think I’ve paid for a show in this town yet; I’ve been fortunate to win more than my share of tickets to shows from Glen Campbell to Duran Duran (I have a great speed dial at work). I also agree that, as I get older, I begin to appreciate the musical value of music I possibly didn’t previously like. I don’t see this as “selling out” or “appreciating crap”. People’s tastes change–hell, I didn’t eat mushrooms till 10 years ago! (The food kind, not the other kind!) As far as today’s music goes, I believe that the problem is simply that there’s nothing new happening. 99% of what is termed “new” is simply a retooling of older styles, with lots of vastly inferior covers of great songs (i.e. Sheryl Crow’s “First Cut is the Deepest”–an insipid piece of CRAP!!!) Outgrow music? Not while there’s breath left in my body!

18

I’m open to listening to new music, but it generally doesn’t appeal to me, mostly because I’ve heard it all before. Most “alternative” groups are just doing watered down retreads of the music of the 70s (which – not counting Disco – was rock’s most adventurous era). As Darrel Schweitzer has pointed out, the avant garde is always very conservative.

OTOh, spending hundreds of dollars to see the Rolling Stones tour one more time isn’t worth it to me. I’d much rather listen to smaller acts.

19

There was an article in some men’s magazine recently about this, listing 10 great albums of the decade so far that people might have missed. The author put it really well–people get out of college, get jobs, get families, and for the most part, stop buying music. This feeds the belief a lot of people seem to have that music hit a peak between their sophomore year of high school and their senior year of college.

If you think about it, even in college it might have only been 10% or so of people who were real music hounds; the rest were content to listen to whatever. Even if half of those folks kept up their music hound status into their late 20s, that makes us pretty far between in everyday life.

I volunteered for an acoustic music series in Kentucky, and I found my people–they ranged from 18 to their 60s, and they were all music nerds. It made me realize that even though most people stopped really loving music in their mid-20s, I certainly didn’t have to follow.

20

Depends on where you are, I suppose. I almost never pay more than $20 for a ticket, and it’s often less than $10. Divide it out by the number of hours of entertainment, and going to a club is cheaper than going to the movies.