Outlander on Starz Season 2 Discussion Thread

Apparently so. King’s health and well being and all that, you see.

Terry Dresbach wrote a nice blog about costuming this episode.

We got to meet Fergus, Bouton, and Mother Hildegarde! We got more detail of Master Raymond’s fabulous coat, and Murtagh, well, got some. :smiley: I guess not all of France smells of asses and armpits.

Mary was shocked, shocked I say, at what Frenchmen dare do with their “things,” and surely Englishmen or Madame Fraser’s gentlemanly Scot would never dream of doing such a thing!!

I like that Murtagh is playing more of a role than in the books. I find it interesting Claire told him first about BJR, knowing how fragile Jamie’s recovery is, she wouldn’t want to do anything to damage it.

Suzette’s insight into the boudoir is important, and symbolizes the disconnect Jamie and Claire still feel. He’s having flashbacks and can’t make love to his wife, she’s bored to tears and goes gallivanting off to the hospital, while Jamie is left to do all the heavy lifting in maneuvering through French and Scottish politics.

The one thing I noticed this season (and maybe it’s just the director of these first few episodes) is that there are a lot of profile shots. It happened in the first episode, where Frank is trying to reach out to Claire and she’s staring off into the distance. It happened last night, when Claire was trying to understand why Jamie brought a pickpocket into their house. I think that signifies disconnect, that the minds are not meeting, although one person is trying the other is not.

Next week, the return of Comte St Germain!

P.S. The bitter cascara that Master Raymond mentioned will be important.

I was pleased to see that the splinter diagnosis and removal did not get cut. Bouton was terrific!

Non-book reader here.

An accurate diagnosis of diabetes(sugar sickness), including an accurate prognosis, would make me suspect someone else is from the future.

I think diabetes was a known ailment from ancient Roman times. I’m not surprised Mother Hildegarde has encountered it.

Further back than that - it was described and named in an Egyptian manuscript of about 1500 BCE. Vedic Indian texts called it “urine-honey disease” because diabetics’ urine would attract ants.

Tasting urine was a diagnostic tool for diabetes, as well. The only thing anachronistic about that scene was that a well-dressed, upper-class woman would a) perform the test and b) know what it signified.

ivylass, interesting thought about the profile shots. I’ll have to look for those.

Slow Moving Wife sent me an interesting post from Tom and Lorenzo’s fashion blog about the semiotics of Claire’s dresses. I’ll post it when I’m off my phone and back to my laptop.

Speaking as a certified waxer, he was using TERRIBLE technique.

I love how they are handling the trauma Jamie suffered, it’s scarily accurate in a lot of ways. Brilliant.

Terry caught their critique on the costumes for the first episode of season 2 (I’m totally taking credit for that, because I tweeted her) and she posted comments that she wants them to come work for her! They gracefully declined, but said they’d love to interview her and she accepted! They’re posting what will hopefully be the first of many chats with her.

I think the show really hit its stride this week. We got a lot of interesting threads that linked up nicely, as well as quite a few scenes lifted from the book. We got the fortress speech, which I was SO looking forward to, as well as the make up sexy pregnant belly time. (The bite marks on Jamie’s thighs would have made more sense if he was wearing a kilt, but I suppose a French “hoor” can nip through trousers.)

I guess bitter cascara acts almost immediately, huh? I wonder if it’s been used for colonoscopy prep. :cool:

Rosie Day as Mary Hawkins is a delight to me. She’s retiring and shy, but there’s a strength in her that’s like a steel magnolia. I loved the scene in the hospital where Mr Forez tells her it’s hangman’s grease and what that means, and her first response is, “Uh huh.”

The Duke inviting Comte St Germain was quite rude, but it muddies his role in the attack on the street. I think we should take a shot every time Bonnie Prince says, “Mark me.” We’d get just as drunk as he is by the end of the episode. We also got him busting through the window and Claire putting two and two together with the monkey bite.

We got to see Master Raymond’s back room with all the animal skulls, and I liked the touch of, “You’ll see Frank again,” which tied into Louise asking how can a man raise a child not his own? My only question is if Bonnie Prince is not received at court, how could Louise meet him?

Love this show!!

Sorry for coming late to the party, but here is the major change (Don’t read if you don’t want to be majorly spoiled!):

In the book, we meet Claire in the mid-1960s, shortly after Frank’s death. She’s visiting Scotland along with her grown daughter, Bree. Wakefield’s adopted son, Roger, meets Bree and becomes majorly smitten with her. In part because he wants to remain connected to Bree, he researches what happened to Jamie’s men after Culloden. It is Roger’s surprising revelation that Jamie survived the slaughter that propels her to return back in time. We re-live what happened in the year or so before Culloden in a flashback. In the tv show, they simply reveal that she’s time traveled back to Frank a few years after she disappeared. She’s pregnant with Jamie’s child, but there’s no hint that 20 years will pass before J&C are reunited again.

I think the change works. We get an insight we wouldn’t have had before.

I also loved BPC’s wine mustache and his slurping all over Louise’s hand. Dude, act like a king already.

Master Raymond also says something about people “from another time” or something like that while casting a knowing look at Claire. It made me think he might also be another time traveller.

Damn, Claire, can’t you treat Alex’s cough?

Lots of voice over and dialogue, but we got a lot of tension with Black Jack showing up again and plans to derail Bonnie Prince’s plans to turn a profit with Comte St. Germain and Claire sabotaging Jamie’s attempt to duel BJR.

I loved Mary’s shawl and I appreciate that they deal with the aftermath of rape, rather than glossing over like other shows I could name.

The King making Black Jack kneel was great. How galling it must have been for him, an English soldier, to kneel before the French king, and how galling to be in a position of vulnerability in front of Jamie. I loved the king’s languid hand gestures when he was giving people permission to speak.

Murtagh’s guilt over not protecting Claire and Mary from the brigands was heart-wrenching. I glad they kept that in from the books.

The final argument between Claire and Jamie was god-awful. So much emotion and pain and betrayal and divided loyalties. Caitroina and Sam did a wonderful job.

Normally I cringe at bumping, but did no one watch episode 5? We’re no Game of Thrones, but I thought we had a bit of a fan base. If there’s no interest I’ll let the thread die, but it will sadden me greatly. :(:(:frowning:

Well, we were on vacation last week, so I didn’t see either of the last two episodes until a few days ago. And your comments were so perceptive l didn’t think I could add much.

Mrs SMV and I also religiously watch Face Off, a reality show about movie makeup artists, so she noticed how well the edges on Cait’s prosthetic pregnancy belly were blended in the make-up sex scene. It may have been, of course, that they digitally placed Cait’s head on a pregnant body double, as was done in the walking-nude-through-the-city scene in Game of Thrones.

She does have a baby bump (Sam likes to play with it) and Ron has mentioned in podcasts that they do some digital clean up in post production (same with Jamie’s flayed back, which takes about 45 minutes to apply.)

No worries, SMV. I just didn’t like to think I was all alone. I hope you had fun on your vacation!

I’m still following the thread as well, but I’m generally a few days behind, so I hold off reading new posts until I’ve watched the latest episode.

If they were trying to create some sympathy for BJ this episode it almost worked. He’s still a psychopath so my sympathy dried up quickly, but the King is (well-played as) a waste of oxygen. I think I need more camera time with sympathetic supporting characters.

Okay, now we’re getting to the ugly-cry parts. I cried twice in this episode, when Jamie told Claire why he promised to wait to kill BJR for a year (and thankfully, addressed all the quibbles the fans seemed to have, like yeah, Claire saved Jamie but he also saved her, so they are “even,” not that couples should keep score) and at the end, when she’s losing the baby.

I’ve watched the episode three times and each time I have whooped and hollered when Jamie delivered the coup de grace.

Fergus is a wonderful, mischievous little boy (the actor who plays him seems to have a little Twitter crush on Rosie Day, who plays Mary Hawkins, but to be fair, they’re probably the same size) and we got big strong always-have-your-back Murtagh. The scene where they’re fitting him out like a French courtier was hysterical and his punching Jamie after being told about Claire was, “Yep, Jamie, he’s right.”

The scenes with sabotaging the Comte seemed oddly smooth and wrinkle-free, which is a departure from other shenanigans with other shows, where Something Always Goes Amiss. Fergus got in and out with spiking the wine, and it was just timing that forced Jamie plan B, smuggling the the wine out of the warehouse before it was confiscated. And the Comte and Jamie bowing up at each other? Rowr. Mama likes the testosterone.

My only question is surely the Comte would have noticed one of the brigands spoke French with a Scottish accent?

I believe next week is the final week in France, as the situation becomes too hot for the Frasers and they have to leave the country.

An hour is too short and a week is too long.

I’m with you on the Compte not hearing the Scottish accent. Those are very strong accents, and surely Murtaugh sounds like Jaime. I hate to think what BJR did to Fergus. I think that’s what sent Jaime to the woods.
I think Alex is still gonna knock up Mary and die, and BJR marries her because bros befo hos, amirite? Then Frank gets to gets to be the descendant of the brother of an asshole, while asshole-adjacent in the eyes of history. At least that would make it easier for Claire to not punch him in the dick while he sleeps one night after she’s had too much wine reminiscing about Scotland.

That’s the one thing that would make Jamie break his promise. I imagine we get that in a heavily implied flashback, given the age of the young actor playing Fergus, we’re not going to get season one finale graphic, thank God.

My only concern, as a book reader, is Later, when Alex is dying, BJR is incredibly cut up about it. Jamie leads him away, gently and kindly, so he and Mary can say goodbye. How does one feel sympathy for a child rapist?