I don’t like this play solely because in my mind, everyone on the football field should only operate under their own power. You shouldn’t be able to push, pull, lift or throw teammates. I’m pretty sure the rules used to actually state this, but if so I guess they changed it.
The complaints about injuries seem speculative at best, though I do concede that it doesn’t look particularly safe.
The complaint that it’s automatic is ludicrous. I have to agree with Sirianni on that point. The Bills struggled mightily with it in the playoffs, and of course my hapless Giants I don’t think ever successfully converted one despite trying many times.
What say you? For or against the tush push?
(The name alone is so horrible as to almost be a reason for the ban all by itself.)
I’m waiting to see a fake tush push where they line up in the formation and the QB waltzes around the end for a score. Seems like it would work very well.
I mean, if you’re going to let offensive linemen rumbling downfield behind the running back ram him forward for an additional four yards before they blow the whistle, then sure, keep it. I see very little difference.
Never heard of that rule. A number of rules over the history of football have been created as exceptions that proved that there was no such prohibition.
Prior to 2006, it was not legal to push or pull a runner. However, that rule was meant for isolated cases of a player picking up and carrying a teammate forward even though the verbiage contained the term “push.’ But it was never meant to flag scrum-like plays, such as short-yardage and goal-line runs. So, because it was not enforced as written, the NFL took it off the books. Essentially, it was not enforceable.
The strange part is the Packers not only had decent success stopping the play, they replicated it fairly well also. Saying they want it banned because they can’t stop it is rather funny - they’re not the Chiefs. Hell, banning it was discussed LAST offseasson.
I don’t particularly care about the play in either direction, but I’d prefer if announcers stopped breathlessly bringing it up EVERY. DAMN. TIME. There were more tush push references on each Eagles drive in the Super Bowl than there were Taylor Swift shots from the entire night.
It’s interesting that the original rule never intended to outlaw goal line push plays. That at least explains to me better why this hasn’t been a rules concern until now that there has been a complaint.
For my money, like I said in the op, I feel that football should always be individuals on the field. I very much like that as a well-defined contrast with rugby. For example, I wouldn’t want to see NFL players lifting each other up to block a kick like on a throw-in in rugby. Examples start 14 seconds into this video:
(I accidentally pasted that link early so immediately posted to avoid the headache of that discourse compatibility issue with videos here.)
I’m pretty sure there’s a specific NFL rule prohibiting lifting guys up to block a kick like that, rugby-style, but I’d rather there wouldn’t need to be a specific rule like that. Just a general rule that nobody can push, pull, lift or otherwise move their teammates.
The Tush Push is a crawling wedge, not flying. There’s nothing different about this play than any other running play where teammates push forward someone with the ball to gain extra yards. It’s just a version of a quarterback sneak where the quarterback doesn’t try to slide under defensive players. Going through the line up higher means the defensive players have to stand up more which gives them less leverage to stop the pushing.
My primary question is this. Why is it illegal for the defense to use “leverage” on kicks - I forget if it’s also illegal on normal plays - but legal for the offense to do it? That’s inherently unfair IMO.
I think the “it’s unsafe” argument is complete bullshit. I can’t say I’ve seen any injuries as a result of that play. Also, the alternative plays where a lead blocker and running back get up a head of steam before crashing into the line or a QB trying to extend and go over the pile are clearly more dangerous. We’ve seen plenty of injuries over the years where a QB gets hurt on the goal line with traditional plays.
Similarly, saying this “breaks the game” is bullshit. If every single team were running this play at like a 90% success rate, then we could talk about it being a problem. But so far it’s basically just the Eagles out there punking people. If it were a hack then every team would have figured it out by now. As a fan of the Bears, that sucks, but I’m mostly pissed that our leadership hasn’t effectively copied it, not that the Eagles are allowed to do it.
I definitely wouldn’t be pissed if the NFL banned leverage on offensive plays so long as it applied everywhere. Both on QB sneaks and on other scrums where the ball carrier is pushed by the pile. As noted above, enforcement on this is difficult, but if they pass a rule it needs to be consistent. It can’t just apply to the “tush push”.
Just because “tush push” is a horrible name doesn’t give us here license to be even more horrible. I’m not seeing a history of homophobia from either of you on a quick search, so I won’t make this a Warning, but let’s not start here.
I don’t real like it, but I don’t see how you disallow it without making other things worse.
My prediction: it won’t be outlawed, but teams will figure out what Jacksonville figured out last season and its success rate will drop to the same as a standard QB sneak. So one way or another, we won’t see it so much.
I hate this Reddit post. It’s hugely reductive and is a lazy regurgitation of Brett Kollmann’s video from a year ago disguised as original insight. It tries very hard, and is helped by the lazy commenters, to act like the OP is somehow seeing something that professional Defensive Coordinators are too blind or stupid to see. The examples used here are from the Super Bowl, where Spagnuolo had all the time in the world to come up with a strategy to stop it. It didn’t work, but to suggest that he didn’t understand the play is laughable. Even Kollmann’s original video is kind of silly in this regard. Certainly, he put more effort into it, but there’s a suggestion that he’s cracked the code where all others have failed…come on.
The reality is that the Eagles simply have better personnel and execution. Notably Landon Dickerson is insane. Watch the clips in the Kollmann video, ignore the commentary and just watch Dickerson on every play. He’s huge, he’s always the first guy off the ball, and he’s comically explosive. He’s basically shot out of a cannon on these plays. The “gate swings” because Dickerson is upfield before the defense is out of its stance. That’s not a rugby tactic, that’s just being awesome. Mailata and Kelce/Jurgens are obviously good too, but it’s Dickerson that makes this play work so consistently.
Both the Reddit OP and Kollmann spin this narrative that the Eagles OL is somehow moving in perfect lockstep. As a unit, moving shoulder to shoulder, like a rugby scrum. All you have to do is watch the clips in the video to see that this isn’t true. Dickerson is WAY out ahead of the C and T on almost every snap. Dickerson being so quick off the ball not only destroys any push from the guy in his gap, but he also usually knocks him into the adjacent defenders cutting off their drive.
