Well, we’re actually having fun at our expense. PorkChop47 is also having fun at our expense.
Methinks PorkChop47 should thank us for allowing him to show us the error of our ways :rolleyes:
Actually, I disagree. This is the first thread that’s really gone on for this long and with this many intelligent posts (IMNPFHO) on this topic since the regular “Guest” memberships kicked in. Now, whenever someone blazes in with the same gripes, we can just point them to this thread and save our time for other, more interesting things.
An ounce of prevention, and all that. 
<— all the smilies I’ll ever need.
Heh, heh. Well, technically you’re paying to post your response to this garbage.
Actually, if I remember correctly, everyone who is a member will pay $9.95 for their second and subsequent years’ membership.
Would all of you shut up, please? I’m trying to channel the HiveMind[sup]TM[/sup] so I’ll know how to respond to PorkChop47, and I can’t concentrate with all this conversation.
And I think those of us lucky enough to be Charter Members can renew each year at $7.95.
Thank you for showing me the error of my ways, now that “the other white meat” has shown me that the SDMB is charging me in order to profit from my thoughts (those bastards) I have been freed (free at last, free at last, thank Og almighty, I am free at last!).
Oh Porkie, buh bye!
Unclviny (a mindless drone for the Chicago Reader)
Actually, I’m with PorkChop (heh, Doug’s dog ;)) on this one, although not necessarily for the reasons he gave. $14.95 a year does seem a bit high for a message board.
15 bucks a year is just too much for me (us!?). I support a wife and two kids, and our budget is super tight right now. Although truth be told, if it were up to just me I would pay it.
It is my wife that is against it (and all other “frivolous” expenses for that matter). Bringing this subject up with my wife will most certainly spark yet another money-based argument. I’m trying to minimize the number of arguments we have. I just can’t do it right now. Maybe another time.
It’s a shame, because I really like the SDMB and would love to be able to post again. [sigh] I guess it’s lurk mode for me (after my ‘Guest’ status is over).
So there you have it. Conflict avoidance is the reason I am not a “Charter Member”. 
I know: The old ball-n-chain…The old ball-n-chain. :wally
This is one of those things I think all the damn time but refrain from posting in deference to the “be nice to the newbies” folk.
But Og dammit, even the most cursory of glances speaks volumes about the character and intelligence of this community. If, within five minutes, you don’t realize that we deserve the benefit of the doubt and have probably noticed [problem] and thought of [potential solution] before, then this is not the board for you.
Now, that being said, my website is run off OSX at home and all I pay is monthly DSL for ~$30, and I got a guestbook off angelfire free! I even write all the HTML myself, so I don’t need staff! C’mon Jerry, quit fuckin’ us in the ass!
Firstly, another welcome-aboard to P_T_.
Pork Chop, since you ran across the subscription-sponsor thread at some point, did it not strike you that here were people not only willing to pay their own subscriptions but those of other people who couldn’t conveniently pay their own right then, in order that we would continue to have this board? Does that not tell you something about how we value this place, that amongst us would be so many people willing to do that?
We like what we’ve got here. Mostly we think the Chicago Reader’s decision to charge a subscription fee here is a reasonable solution, but more to the point most of us would shrug and tolerate a far less reasonable solution if by doing so our board could continue to exist. There was a real risk that the Reader would simply decide to say “Been nice knowing ya” and turn off the server and be done with us, and now that’s a whole lot less likely.
I agree with others who said that many of your first posts were lucid and you seemed like you’d fit right in here. If things had gone differently, we’d have probably been glad to have you and if the $14.95 had been dissuasive one of us would have picked up your tab. As you’ve gone so thoroughly into spewing contempuous invective mode on our asses for several pages in this thread, you’ve pretty much made most of us feel glad to see you leave, but most of what you keep spitting out at us is “you folks are stupid to pay to be here”. We keep explaining that we know there are other boards and faster boards and cheaper boards and that nevertheless this one is the bargain, this one is the place to be.
You don’t get it, and so you’re leaving, and so you’re telling us about how you don’t get it and that you’re leaving, and you continue to not get it.
So, umm, you’re leaving, right?
Hell, I agree. But I pay it because I’ve been here 5 years and it’s become, well, a part of my life. It’s also the best source for, well, pretty much everything ever. It’s worth it to me. (Yes, I paid $5, but I’d probably pay fifty if they asked me.) Especially considering my stay here, it’s a buck a year.
You seem like a good poster, and hopefully, you’ll be able to register with us someday. Or then again, you might just get over it, and it’ll all be moot. 
[aside]
By the way, I was wrong about the subsequent years’ membership fee. Upon searching ATMB I find that after the first year, the membership fee for existing users is at a 50 percent discount from the then normal newbie fee. Therefore, if the $14.95 stands, then our future fee will be $7.49.
[/aside]
I bet he pays just so he can continue to stay here and tell us how stupid everyone else is for paying. :smack:
DAMMIT, people! I’ve almost got the HiveMind[sup]TM[/sup] response, but all this chatter is causing too much interference!
I know it’s a four-word response the HiveMind has created. I know three of the words are “Eat shit” and “die.” I can’t get that fourth word, though! My frustration level knows know bounds.
At one time there was a group of people who were willing to sponsor members. I dunno if they’re still doing that, but if you’d like to be a member and post there might be folks who’ll sponsor you. I suspect PorkChop47 is SOL on that score, though.
Yeah, i really feel like i’ve been had. I’ve been a member of these boards for almost three years, i have over three thousand posts, i have enjoyed countless hours of entertainment reading and participating, and i’ve forked over a total of $4.95. What a rip-off.
It’s quaint that you believe your stupidity and obtuseness constitutes “individuality.” You just go on thinking that.
I can’t recall anyone saying that this place is full of “great minds,” whatever they are. Personally, i think that this place is full of intelligent people who enjoying discussing and debating both important and mundane issues. You, my friend, have no idea of what the members of this Board do or do not get out of the experience, and even if you did, it wouldn’t matter, because other people’s reasons for being here are really none of your business.
As for scaring you away, it’s apparent that we don’t need to. You’ve made it very clear that you have no interest in sticking around, and that nothing that anyone here can say or do will change your mind. As others have said, don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out.
Look, idiot, it’s this simple: if i feel that the value i receive from this Message Board is greater than the amount that i pay to use it, then i am not being overcharged, by definition. It’s hard enough to determine an intrinsic value for a tangible product with a specific amount of material and labor invested in it and an obvious use value; it’s even harder to determine an intrinsic value for a service such as this, which provides enjoyment and diversion. Basically, the service is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. If the asking price becomes too high for most people, they will stop subscribing, and the host will have to decide whether to lower the price or abandon the enterprise. As long as enough people feel that the asking price is reasonable, they will continue to participate. Of course, there will always be some who simply cannot afford the asking price, or who feel that it does not represent value for money. Those people have two options: take advantage of the very generous people who have offered to sponsor other users; or leave.
Well, dipshit, consider your clue dropped. We got the message way back in the OP, and guess what? We’ve decided that, despite your sage advice and sparkling turn of phrase, we’re happy to continue being duped into forking over massive subscription fees to the SDMB.
Again, you need to understand what “overcharging” means. I’m going to simplify things a bit here, because you’re obviously having trouble keeping up.
-
To an ardent socialist or communist (but i’ll leave government intervention out of this, for the sake of simplicity), “overcharging” might possibly be defined as any amount over and above the basic cost of running the board. That is, some might believe that the Reader has the right to recoup the cost of running the Board, but that it does not have the right to make a profit.
-
To a free market capitalist, “overcharging” might simply be the point at which the enterprise ceases to be profitable, or perhaps the point at which the rates of return on investment begin to diminish. For this group, the concept of “overcharging” has no necessary direct relationship to the cost of providing the service, but is, rather, a function of marginal costs and profit levels.
As i suggested above, this is a vastly oversimplified distinction, but it’s one that you might be able to grasp.
Now, by neither of the above criteria are we being overcharged. Even under criterion 1, we’re not being overcharged because, as others have pointed out, the Reader is still in the hole to the extent of almost $100,000. So, not only do these subscriptions not bring the organization a profit, but they have yet to bring it back to break-even status.
By criterion 2, we aren’t being overcharged, for the simple reason that we’ve decided to pay for the service. It might be a cliche, but in a free market system, things are worth literally what people are willing to pay for them. So, if we are paying $4.95 or $14.95, for a service that none of us really need (on a life-or-death level), then that is what the service is worth. In fact, some Dopers have made clear that they would pay twice or five times that amount.
Of course, there are people who feel that the asking rate is too much, or who have a principled belief that internet message boards should be free. But the fact that they feel this way does not mean that those who choose to join are being overcharged.
I’m not sure if this interests you at all, but i’m actually not an ardent free market capitalist myself. Economically, i tend towards democratic socialism. But that doesn’t mean that some basic laws of microeconomics don’t apply to situations like the one we’re discussing here. Even the most ardent Marxist economist recognizes that, as the saying goes, “There’s no such thing as a free lunch.” That is, even when we get something “free,” the cost of providing it must have been borne by someone along the line.
Because one can no longer pay $4.95, dimwit. That offer applied to pre-existing members, and had to be taken up before the last week of April.
So, you have no interest in being a member even if someone else pays for you? What then, pray tell, is the purpose of this thread? Is it simply to come, tell us all how stupid we are for choosing to pay for this service, and then leave? If so, then might i suggest that you get a life.
No, we will not have to pay $14.95 until the regular subscription rate increases to $29.90. Those who signed up as Charter Members will always be able to renew their memberships at half the normal rate. So, if the normal rate is still $14.95 next year, we will pay $7.48. If the normal rate goes up to $20, we will pay $10. And so forth.
And, as i’ve suggested before, this is irrelevant. If i had to pay $14.95, i would, and all your whining about overcharging wouldn’t stop me.
As others have pointed out, you are referring to the Straight Dope, not the Straight Dope Message Boards. And, in case you hadn’t noticed, access to the Straight Dope columns and archives is still free, hence the banner ads.
No-one said avatars were evil. We’re just happier without them. If looking at pictures is your thing, just go back to your regular reading and leave us alone.
Did anyone else laugh themselves silly when they read this?
PorkChop seems to have one good point: asking $14.95 after just one month is a hard sell. This may very well be true - if I found this board today, I’m not sure if I’d pony up fifteen bucks to join it after a month. I’ll be interested to see how many new members sign up at the $14.95 level in the coming months.
Is 01010000 binary for Porkchop?
P_T, I hope you’re staying.
Ya know, I gotta say that I think if someone came to this particular board and said “Hi, I’m gay/Spanish/Russian/transgender” … I think we might not poke fun at them.
Individuality is a fine thing, a precious thing, a thing not to be squandered or squelched.
Idiocy, on the other hand, is none of those things, and con resultat we like to keep as little of it here as we can. Preferably in vials. We need to make antidotes on occasion.
Oh, bloody hell. I don’t suppose polygamy will be legal (hint hint: Utah had to ban polygamy before it could be admitted into the Union) any time soon. How would you feel about a lascivious and passionate affair/fling?
Oh, I’m a guy too, so … yeah. I don’t suppose you’re into men at all…
The Reader is an MCI customer, so assuming they have an uncapped, nonbursted T1 they’re probably paying between $800 and $1500 a month for connectivity and bandwidth depending on the local loop charge (which is set by SBC) and any discounts they have. (Those rates are based on my experience with MCI as a telecom service provider in the Chicagoland area; they are not wild-ass guesses.) So connectivity and bandwidth alone eat between $9000 and $18,000 a year. Now, they share this bandwidth with the rest of the Reader public website, so not all of the traffic charged can be attributed to the Boards, but I bet a lot of it is. Hi-cap bandwidth is a lot more expensive than most people realize.
And let’s not forget that $18,000 also doesn’t cover the cost of paying Jerry and company to keep the Boards up and running.
No, there’s no way that the Boards are profitable at the $4.95 charter subscriber rate. Maybe at the $14.95 base rate, but even then I doubt it.
Or? Could it be or? Eat shit or die. No, that doesn’t seem right. I’ll keep trying, though my HiveMind connection keeps getting interrupted by work, of all things.
This was my one concern when the Boards switched to paid subscriptions. At the time, i think i suggested offering introcutory memberships (one year) at a discounted rate to new members, the way magazines do. I, too, would be interested to see what the take-up rate is for guests becoming new members.
But this is really only a side issue to PorkChop’s stupid ranting about how we are all being ripped off.
I’ve got two magazines in my briefcase at the moment, Newsweek*, with a cover price of $3.95 USD and Family Circle Easy Knitting with a cover price of $5.99. I subsribed to this board for $4.95 and, in any given week, I’d say I’ve derived at least $5.00 worth of pleasure from this board, let alone 52 of them. This place has provided free advice and therapy. In at least a couple of cases I can think of, it’s helped save lives, including, quite possibly, mine. Forget the subscription fee – in a few weeks I’ll be buying food for a Dopefest aka a get-together of a few dozen good friends.
It’s Friday. In a few hours, people are going to pay at least $5.00 to see New York Minute and Van Helsing. People will be paying a lot more to attend the symphony or the opera or a concert by the latest punk rock band. They’re doing so for the same reason I paid to join here – because they enjoy it. If you don’t like, don’t pay it. Hell, next Friday, I’ll be attending the opera for free. A friend of mine will be actively avoiding it!
Pork Chop, you’re acting like a jerk. One of the things I love most about this place is it is mercifully free of jerks because they are strongly discouraged (I’m picturing Lynn Bodoni as the Grim Reaper). I didn’t notice you before today, and I’ll be happy to continue not to notice you. Have a nice life, somewhere else. Me, I’ll stick with the company I’ve chosen.
CJ