Jesus Jumping Christ, I do that. I wear my jacket in the airport during summer all the fucking time. I do it to get through security faster: put all my metal crap in my coat pockets, send the coat through the x-ray, put the coat back on, go on my way. I check my watch a lot too! Gasp! Clearly either I’m a terrorist or I’m worried about whether or not my plane is going to take off on time, you paranoid fucks!
But of course I don’t speak Arabic when I do it, which clearly makes all the difference :rolleyes:
End result of all this passenger “watchfulness”? A three-hour plane delay, except for the poor bastards who had the temerity to speak Arabic, who got to extend their stay in Malaga for an extra day courtesy of airport security. That’s it.
So let’s review, shall we? That big bad terror plot in London? No bomb. No plane tickets purchased. No passports acquired. All suspects had been under surveillance for over a year. Oh, and the supposed “binary liquid explosive” idea? Ludicrously unfeasible. Terror in the skies in general? I don’t have world-wide stats, but the number of Americans who have died due to international terrorism since 1960 is about the same as the number who have died due to “lightning, accident-causing deer, or severe allergic reaction to peanuts”. (PDF link.)
Air travel is already as safe as fucking houses. But nevertheless terrorists have apparently succeeded because we’re clearly scared shitless. Gah! Backbone, people! Show some backbone!
IMHO, this whole ‘War on Terror’ thing has been contrived by western governments to keep the populaces scared and alarmed by phantoms instead of the real scarey and alarming Big Brother measures the gummints have introduced to keep us constantly scared and alarmed.
In other words, quit talking about terrorists and threats to our security because the biggest terrorism and threatening behaviour is being perpetrated by our own national governments…supposedly in response to the (as you showed Orbifold) lesser real threat of real terrorist activity. Unfortunately, some dickheads take it dead-set seriously.
It’s not the terrorists who have succeeded in terrorising us. It’s our own governments and media sources. :rolleyes:
I went on vacation with my parents this year, to a little island in the Gulf of Mexico. There was a magnet on the refrigerator door in our condo that said ‘Fight Terrorism! Report suspicious activity!’ That’s it, in its entirety. No mention of what this ‘activity’ might involve, or to whom we might report it. My Dad said it reminded him of the Red Scare of the 50’s.
Luckily, we didn’t see any guys in turbans and overcoats on the beach, and we all escaped unharmed.
Obviously, our Glorious Leaders and airport security personnel have all fallen victim to the scourge of marihuana. That stuff makes you paranoid and crazy. I saw a documentary about it called Reefer Madness. Scary stuff.
The link explains that TATP, or triacetone triperoxide, is very unstable, and thus dismisses it as a real threat – at most, it says, the terrorists could have blown out a few windows. Putting aside what sort of havoc even that might cause, though, even the article itself acknowledges that the basic idea – a coordinated group of guys sneaking explosives on to planes in a tightly-timed effort – is “real terror”.
Do you agree with that paragraph of your link, or only the paragraphs that support your “we have nothing to worry about” thesis?
Orbifold’s OP is about the theatrics of security and the paranoia engendered by it. The threat you talk about is not one that could be countered by throwbacks listening for foreign-sounding passengers.
Your mewling characterisation of this as a ’ “we have nothing to worry about” thesis’ is gobshite.
A victory for the terrorists? Well yeah. What do you expect? Terrorism works or otherwise we wouldn’t have so much of it in the world.
What is the minimal amount of evidence you require to make the decision that the risk is too great.
It wasn’t just the “colour of their skin”. They spoke in an incomprehensible language, overdressed, and scruffy looking.
European airport security is not up to El Al standards… check
Airplanes are a primary terrorist target…check
Flight originates in Britain, a terrorist target…check
Flight ends in Spain, a terrorist target…check
Terrorist most likely an Arabic speaking man…check
Suicide bombers require heavy clothing…check
How much risk can you endure? If I was by myself, they probably wouldn’t have scared me off the plane other than getting off because the plane was going nowhere, but if I had my children with me, (and there where many families aboard in this case), that would likely be a different matter.
To get back to the EL Al situation. No people have been terrorized like the Israelis, but you don’t hear them freaking out when boarding El Al. That is because they take terrorism seriously and fucking deal with it. Your pitting should be directed at western governments that take security measures in a half assed fashion.
There’s a right way and a wrong way to respond to a real threat. Communism was a real threat too, but McCarthyism wasn’t the right response. Patient, realistic, clever criminals won’t be caught by passengers boycotting flights that carry the funny looking, and if the only way we can stop terrorism is by molesting women and violatingpeople’scivilrights, then I’d just as soon let the terrorists through, and die, so that my children can live free. Get you the sons your fathers got, and God will save the Queen. Or the constitution. Whichever.
And as thousands of comedians (including a few on this board) have pointed out, the only way to keep it from getting on a plane is to have everyone fly naked. As a rail travel enthusiast, I have no prblem with air travel becoming so inconvenient that only people abandon it, but others who fly regularly would disagree, I’m sure.
I have a different take on this. What I find amazing is that this happens so infrequently. I remember after 9/11 that one of the first thing Bush did was to tell perople not to blame all Muslims for the actions of a few. Police all over the country patrolled Mosques and other Muslim sites to make sure there were no retaliations. There were some, but not many.
Imagine if the reverse had happened and 19 British and American citizens had killed several thousand Muslims. Do you think that Islamic govts would have protected churches and synagogues?
I am amazed by the calm in Britain. The subway bombings last year and this latest threat to blow up 10(!) flights were by people that grew up in Britain. Their parents were allowed to immigrate and had the right to practice their own religion and dress as they please, yet they took it upon themselves to attack the very people that had extended an open hand.
These terrorists had the option to leave Britain and go to an Islamic country, but chose another route. What has been the reaction? Mosques and Madrasses are not in flames and mobs of Christains and Jews did not attack the street protests by supportes of Hizzbullah. The reaction of the community where the terrorists live has been to deny that they could be guilty.
I think that if I were in that situation and saw that my religion and culture were formenting so much hatred and violence I would at least be somewhat abashed. In WWII, German residents of Britain and the US did not run around in Liederhosen with copies of Mein Kampf in their hand. They took a stand and decided that their allegiance lied with there new country. Some changed their names (including Mountbatten) to sever their ties with Germany and people of German heritage enlisted in droves to serve in the Military.
Contarst this with what is going on now. What I see are a bunch of Islamic apologists. They want to live in countries which extend an enormous amount of freedom to them yet support their Islamic causes which hate Jews and Christians, exploit women, and want to turn back the clock a thousand years.
In summary, what is amazing is not this revolt of the passengers, but the fact that it happens so little. I don’t think the patience of the west will last much longer. I’d like to clamp down on all immigration and travel from Islamic countries. The fact that people are free to travel and live abroad serves as a safety valve for the pressure to reform from within.
Great. I’m fucked. If I want to go on holiday, I guess I have to get the train to Paris, first. No, wait, Paris has had too many Islamist attacks in the past. Maybe carry on to Germany…no, wait, that’s near to where the Hamburg Cell came from…maybe Amsterdam…nope, full of darkies, too…I know, I’ll just go to Israel, I’ll surely be safer there. :dubious:
I don’t know, because I’m not sure how you’re quantifying any of this. I doubt there’s many flight in or out of Manchester that don’t have a few Muslim passengers on board. Not to mention airport employees. Or any other part of the city. Perhaps you’d prefer to just stay in Malaga?
Actually, I think I would not be in a fit mental state to fly, if I tried to catch a flight from Manchester to Malaga by turning up at, errrrr, Malaga Airport
