Parenting experts are destoying my parenting experience!

The BBQ Pit
21

There aren’t answers. That’s not how it works. I’ve been through all the same stuff you mention, and in spades. There is no “right” answer. The good part is that there aren’t all that many “wrong” answers either.

A quick list of my “qualifications” I guess may be appropriate. I was sixth out of eight kids. I was a homebirth, some of my brothers and sisters weren’t. I wasn’t vaccinated. Some of my brothers and sisters were. I was homeschooled for several years, some of my brothers and sisters weren’t. I was breastfed, most of us were, some weren’t. Most of us were cloth-diapered.

Now as adults we’re raising our families. Some of us cloth-diaper, homeschool, selectively vaccinate, breastfeed, have large families, etc. Some of us use disposable diapers, public school, vaccinate and medicate, bottle-feed, have only one kid, etc. Most mix and match between these behaviors as they feel appropriate for them. When we all get together for family gatherings about the only thing that is noticable is that all the kids are happy and healthy.

Loosen up. Put the books down, get off the internet and go spend time with the child. They’ll tell you what they need if you spend enough time with them to learn how to listen.

Enjoy,
Steven

22

[slight hijack]

I did not say I believe it.
I have complete faith in other people, including new mothers, not to take drastic action on a preliminary statement.
I am not cofusing ‘believe I heard’ with ‘it is a fact’.

Please jump down someone else’s throat.
[/slight hijack]

I have searched for and found no job.

I found a reference to the story I remembered; older vaccines had higher levels of a mercury based perservative called thimerosal. I did not find a reference to any single vaccines being safer that the MMR.

In addition, the Lancet 1998 study on autism and MMR was conducted by a “… British physician … gathering information for a lawyer representing parents who believed that their children had been harmed by the vaccine.” Oh, wait, that article mentions three vaccines, but no details.

If you want the links, I can post them. But your problem is getting too much conflicting advice, isn’t it?

Another thing to remember is the dismal state of reporting on science. Preliminary results on complicated studies are ‘distilled’ down to single statements of fact designed to grabbed attention in the popular press, usually by a reporter educated in the humanities.* And then anyone who wants to can write a book about it.

I’m with Steven, put down the books. You do know that you and the baby will be fine, don’t you?

*To all reporters: I apologize for any offense I have caused; I am exaggerating to reassure a frustrated parent.

23

Yep.

Do the best you can. And remember that perfectly healthy smart children were raised on formula (or breastfed). Were vaccinated (or not). Had parents who read to them every night (and ones that didn’t). Millions of children are born every year - and have been for thousands of years. Under all sorts of parenting styles. Most of them turn out just fine.

The other thing is that kids are very different. Take reading. My daughter will listen to me read for hours. We love reading together. My son can’t sit still for it. So I don’t feel guilty about not reading to him.

j66 - you aren’t helping. Since many women don’t have milk the first three days, it doesn’t help to tell them that is when they should be breastfeeding. (Mine didn’t come in for seven days. And no collostrum either. We bottlefed that first week because otherwise we’d have a dehydrated baby).

24

{quote] Put the books down, get off the internet and go spend time with the child. They’ll tell you what they need if you spend enough time with them to learn how to listen.
[/QUOTE]

This is the heart of it.

One of the best bits of advice I got (rather late, but fortunately I had pretty much figured it out by then) is this:

The baby IS the book. Learn to read your child, and you’ll have the best manual that exists.

As for the many many many conflicting advice providers? Here’s my take: Start with evidence-based medicine for things that have medical outcomes. Try Cochrane.org for things like breastfeeding, immunizations, and circumcision.

Here’s my other big BIG bit of advice. You haven’t failed yet. Growing babies is like growing a garden. They aren’t done the first week, or the first year, or the first decade. You have time to rework ground you ignored before, if you are aware of where the weeds are growing. It takes a lot of damage to completely destroy your garden, or your child. You also don’t get to choose everything about what will grow there, how it will look, whether things you prefer will thrive in its conditions, and what possibilities it encompasses. Follow the research using evidence-based medicine, but beyond that, remember that you haven’t failed yet. Made a mistake? Something didn’t work? Not the end of the world. You learn. You learn to tend, to bend into even the tasks you dislike, because they teach you so much. You learn even from the weeds, and you develop an intimacy with the work that is impossible unless you get grubby, dream grand dreams, give up on things you find don’t work, discard tools that break in your hand, grieve the losses, try again, and try again, and try again.

Things your garden needs that your child also needs:

  1. Your time. Spending time with your garden and with your child teach you who they are, what they need, and what they require of you.

  2. Your effort. Getting dirty, doing the labor, even just walking around and finding out what is going on out there (or in there) regularly is part of how you become a tender of your garden or your child, instead of a visitor in that place or that life.

  3. Humility, and patience. It isn’t done in one day. Mistakes are not absolutes, unless they are really really huge mistakes, and opportunities for those do not come along very often with people who fret over things like this. Make a mistake? You can tend it, focus on the resolution, take more care, provide more nutrients, weed out the invasives, and so forth. Doesn’t make you feel better, but boy do you learn!

  4. Find (quality) resources that fit your values. A book on pesticides won’t suit an organic gardener. Yes, it is hard to tell which books to rely on (as you’ve noted), but you can also probably get a feel for which ones, in underlying approach and message, just feel right to you. If the technique is one you DREAD, chances are it isn’t one that will work for you. If the idea of cosleeping scares you to death, then that’s not the best option. If the idea of sleep training makes you want to vomit, then that’s not the path for you, either. You should feel positive about what you are doing, and feel it is positive for your child, too. If you can’t look forward to doing it, in some way, perhaps it is worth seeing what else is out there.

  5. Be willing to look elsewhere if the resource doesn’t help. Nobody has all the answers. There are usually many many other options you haven’t even heard of yet. And sometimes, you may just have to poison the invasive vines, even if you’d rather not.

  6. Talk to other gardeners. You’ll find when you talk to other parents and ‘experts’ that there is a lot of garbage out there, and not all of it makes good compost. Talk, listen, and filter using your reason (evidence-based), and your gut (intuition isn’t a bad thing with babies).

  7. Take time to enjoy. Babies and children, like gardens, really need to be loved to thrive. Even if you go to the neurobiology level, the degree of attunement, of reaction to their needs, of feeling for them and interaction with them is what feeds their brains.

You want your baby to grow and thrive? Tend them, in the sense of tender, loving care. In tending a garden, the act of tending tends the gardener. The same for parenting. You grow up in the process of rearing your child, and you grow love, independance, a sense of self, identity, security, drive, and all the other things you wish for your children as you help them acheive these things for themselves. (Truly tending anything, not just children, does this, though - so I’m not saying you must have kids to grow up.)

You’ve got a good start on the information overload, too. :wink: Now time to start filtering.

I won’t go into my favorite resources here - you can email me if you want my opinion and my links (anyone). Or search for my posts on parenting. Far more important are the basic truths. Being a parent is hard work. The right choice is VERY often a difficult one. And if you are honest with yourself, you’ll know that for any choice you make, there is only the slimmest of chances that you will ever know if it was the right choice.

Use your mind - find the resources that have evidence to back them up. Use your heart - feel your way into a relationship with your child. Use your body - put in the work that comes with parenting. Use your soul - do things that engender a sense of connection, passion, and peace. But don’t stop there. Find tools that fit your hand, and community that fits your worldview.

Tend. That’s how you get things to grow well.

25

Hedra, I want to be just like you when I’m a Mommy. That’s not the first post I’ve read from you that’s made me want to rush out and have my own!

As far as everything else, this is one of the reasons mr. avabeth and I are so unsure about when to start our family - we’re afraid that no matter what we do, they can still be hurt or turn out badly or we could lose them. I’ve seen enough of my relatives telling my cousins what to do with their kids - it’s like everyone has the right way of raising children, but no one can tell me exactly what that is.

Ava

26

Preview is my friend… sigh.

Just wanted to add a hug - you have a 15-month-old. There’s a fussy stage that peaks right around then… let me see if I can find the info… Basically, if you are tearing out your hair right now, you are NORMAL, and it isn’t your fault.

Here ya go (from The Wonder Weeks, or rather, a bad translation of the Dutch version of the same book):

51+/- 2 weeks - 55 WEEKS (12-13 months) POST-DUE DATE (not post birth date):
Duration of stage: avg. 4-5 weeks (3-6 weeks) peaks at 55 weeks, usually done at 59 weeks (~15 months).

Change/learning going on in their brain: the understanding of “programs” or activities that have multiple steps, but where the steps may not be the same every time or may have variations in order. Steps are flexible.

Reaction to the stage: back to mama, cry more, clingy. when with mama they cry less. clings to your legs; stranger anxiety; don’t want to lose body contact; want to be played with; is jealous when mother pays attention to someone or something else; fast changing mood; sleeps bad; nightmares; eats bad but nurses often; behaves more baby-like; ‘too’ sweet; takes to a blanket or bear; naughty; hot-tempered.

Post-development (how they act after the stage is over):. Interested in things like “doing the laundry”, washing the dishes, dinner, clothing, building towers, and so on. These are programs that consists of several different steps. These steps are flexible. Even when the order of things to be done change, it keeps to be the same program. Baby understands that. A program consists of several steps and in between the steps there may be several choices to make: should I go on with this program, and what step should I make now. Baby starts playing with these choices. And investigates which choices are possible and which are not. Eg while eating, turning around the silverware to make the food fall on the floor.
Baby can ‘plan’ to do a program, eg take a bucket to start washing dishes. Or getting a coat to go outside. But he cannot explain things, so when people don’t understand him, he’ll feel frustrated. S/he doesn’t understand ‘waiting’ yet. Baby can refuse to do a certain program, because he understands what happens at the end of the steps.

Mother’s typical reaction: is exhausted and uncertain (often I find that they are also frustrated, desperate, confused, distracted, getting next to no sleep, and feeling very much like failures)

How to help:
•playing with changing/putting on clothes and with washing;
•playing with eating “all by themselves” (put a big plastic mat around his chair);
•toys with programs eg garage with cars, train, farm with animals, dolls, silverware, cottages, shops. Help him/her with this;
•playing with real things, eg money, radio, make-up, shoes;
•telling stories;
•playing with talking, conversations;
•playing with music, listening to song and making the motions;
•‘helping’ mother;
•babies can understand (be taught) that you are busy with a program yourself and you want to finish it before responding to her.
•Let your baby search for new solutions, exploring several endings of a program.
•let your baby play investigator;
•gifted children are extremely exhausting for their parents. they go on and on exploring everything and never stop. Every time a new thing.
•new fears appears

Unfortunately, this is the last stage the book describes, but there are more coming. One at 20 months or so, and further ones beyond that… They happen less and less frequently, but last longer, IME. Each time, they regress, get clingy and needy, whiney, don’t sleep well or sleep constantly, get insecure, etc. Lovely fun. But not your fault. Brain growth makes it hard to filter data and inputs, so they overload easily (I remember going through a few of these stages, and I can still recall the too-bright-too-noisy-too-textured-too-real-ness of it. I just wanted to crawl into a hole and hide, but at the same time everything was so PRETTY… AHHH!)

27

Avabeth, thanks. Maybe my book will be out before you have to decide for sure… (got another chapter to try to finish tonight… now only about 10 more to go! AHHHHHHHH!).

28

And yes, FTR, I do find it ironic that I say ‘the baby is the book’ but I’m writing a book (though mine is more a philosophy book than a ‘how-to’ book, and it is more about how to figure out for yourself the answer(s) to the problem(s) in the OP than telling you what the answer should be).

29

It sounds like you read Mothering Magazine.

It’s a nice counter cultural rag, but f you do, throw out every “scientific” article in it - they make Prevention look like the New England Journal of Medicine.
And it underscores that almost everything ever written about baby care has an agenda behind it.

When my kids were babies the advice that absolutely drove me up a wall and made me feel the most inadequate was of the “listen to your child. Once you TRULY understand your child, you’ll know what to do.” Well, when I listened to my kid, all I heard was screaming.

Here’s the thing that made me feel best when my oldest was 15 months old - think back to when she was a new born. I felt totally unprepared at the time. But, I knew I could handle another new born by then. Trust me, when your child is 3 years old, you’ll know the ins and outs of a toddler.

The best “advice” book (and I read them all) was the T. Berry Brazilton book in which he describes three very different babies. I went to La Leche League meetings (I did breastfeed. What people don’t tell you is that while it’s more difficult than bottle feeding during those first 6 weeks, it’s infinitely easier from then on) and that was a place a found a supportive circle of mothers with babies and toddlers.

30

Sorry, this is the sort of one sized fits all advice that doesn’t fit all and drives parents crazy. I had one breastfed and one bottlefed (adopted). Both have their charms (and certainly both have their imperfections) - but I wouldn’t say that one is infinitely easier than the other. In my experience, with bottlefeeding, dad can easily give a bottle (without needing to pump), babies sleep better through the night (formula tends to be more filling), and you don’t need to break your child’s habit on the physical (some parents find weaning a toddler off breast much more problematic - after all, you can throw away bottles, but the toddler knows your breasts are right there - wasn’t a problem for me - my daughter wanted nothing to do with the breast after six and a half months). Breastfeeding, on the other hand, doesn’t involve dishes and - as long as you are there - is instantly available - and is so much cheaper. I know a lot of breastfeeding moms love co-sleeping- they don’t need to get up in the middle of the night - but if you can’t feed lying down, you are up anyway.

31

Ahhhh, yes, the confliction:

**Mothering Magazine ** caters to the organic, home-schooling, no vaccinations/circumcision, feel good mother earth stuff. If you do not spend every waking minute of your day with your child strapped to you while you grind your own grain and weave your own alpalca wool then you are a BAD MOTHER. If you don’t do it this way, and have 19 children named Starshine or Ezekiel, the Feminists will have won.

**Working Mother **caters to the You must work 90 hours a week at a $100k a year job that you went to college for to get your Masters in because you own it to yourself to not become your mother and BTW, how else will you afford the uptown loft, designer clothes, au pair and fabulous vacations? How will little Yvette or Carleton be able to afford Brown/Harvard , let alone therapy if you don’t work your way up the corporate ladder? If you don’t work, your daughters will think less of you and you will lose all contact with your friends if you quit, you hoser. If you don’t do it this way, the Conservatives/Democrats will have won.

Martha Stewart Baby and Kids We will look down our UBER WASP noses as we talk down to you on the proper way to knit a blanket for your perfect WASP baby ( Silas & Anna) out of wool from virgin lambs off the foothills of Peru. (Available only at Martha Stewart on line ofr $12.50 a skein, along with knitting needles $22.50) We will give you crafts to try that are a wonderful way to recycle items in your own home to give as gifts, only yours will never look nearly as good as ours because a) you have no talent b) your kids are not nearly as clever as our kids c) you did not buy the Martha Stewart Pipe Cleaners (chenille sticks) on line for $12.50 for ten. You suck.

Child All about working a little less hours so your precious child can wear designer togs and go to some smarmy waspy school. You married well and are more of a trophy wife. You are still a hoser parent if you don’t have a side job making $30k on the side to pay for the au pair and fabulous vacations. Your child is most likely named: Audrey or Kevin.
Parents and Parenting : You are barely making ends meet working as a secretary or some other dead end job, but need the bennies, so we won’t hassle you there for your bad career decisions. We support you naming your child something atrocious just like we like to focus on issues of parents whose kids somehow get injured in the most ridiculous situations and how you need to FOCUS ON THE EVILS OF PRODUCE SCALES or PENNY PONY RIDES too!!!
Instead we will shove down your exhausted throat what a bad parent you are if you have ever put your child to sleep on its stomach/side or just scare the living bejeebus out of you with the DISEASE OF THE MONTH!! Giving them benedryl before a plane ride is wrong, wrong, wrong. That your child may catch at the rat infected day care you put them in because you missed last months kneejerk issue on the very subject. And don’t you know that every tub toy is DEATH WAITING TO HAPPEN in that VORTEX OF EVIL CALLED THE BATHTUB!

Hope this helps.

32

Omg, so you have met my son?? Hehe, sorry…I know you haven’t but I nearly got sniffly reading that description because that IS my son right now. And yes, you are also right that I am currently deep in the mire of blaming myself for all of his current behavior. The fact that you were able to describe him so well lets me know that this is normal and I love hearing that! Thanks for that. If this thread gets me no more information than that, it was worth the posting.

Shirley: Will you be my new best friend? I laughed to tears over your post! Ok, I’m still laughing (or am I crying?) and I appreciate your “getting it” too.

33

Well. That explains what’s wrong with you.
:rolleyes:
:wink: :smiley:

Shirley,
So, what you are saying is that I am subscribing to the wrong mag for my needs? My crafty things are just as good as Martha’s. Tis a pity yours aren’t. Hmph.
Ok, seriously now.
Hedra,
Something to consider for your book: Photos.
I wish there was a baby book with actual pictures in it as well as descriptions. Most books just have descriptions, which are basically worthless. Telling me poop will look seedy means nothing to me!

34

hedra, you make me want to get out in my garden.

35

Shirley,

My Dr.'s office subscribes to Parents or Parenting or something. So I pick it up. Ten Childhood Habits and How to Stop Them (or something). Things like nose picking, nail biting, thumb sucking. Every one of them had “what is the worst that could happen.” And of course, in every case, your darling child - perfect except for that nose picking habit - could “PICK UP SOME TERRIBLE INFECTION AND DIE!!!”

Now, I’d just done a risk management project and had some passing familiarity with “what is the worst thing that could happen” and the follow up question “how likely is that.” And, I don’t usually admit this in public - but I was a champion nose picker AND nail biter into adulthood. And never once did I “GET SOME TERRIBLE INFECTION” that even required antibiotics or a trip to the doctor.

36

I did come to the conclusion that many “experts” are pretty much useless, except for giving you ideas of things to try with your child, to see if they work in your individual situation.

I do believe in digging to find actual scientific evidence to guide my parenting. For instance, manymanymany studies show that breastmilk is better than formula. A recent metastudy cited in the latest Mothering magazine found that the infant mortality rate for formula-fed infants was twice that of breastfed infants - and that’s in industrialized countries like the USA. That is certainly something to consider. (Formula is of course a wonderful product for people who genuinely cannot breastfeed - it’s just that formula companies fork over a LOT of money to pediatricians, who have a huge influence on whether breastfeeding will work or not.)

In the middle of the spectrum is spanking. While I am personally opposed to spanking on philosophical grounds, my reviews of the studies on spanking have revealed little to no quantifiable harm from “standard” open-hand spanking on the butt. Where one study shows harm, another shows none - they seem to largely even out.

On the far end of the spectrum is the vaccination-autism “link.” This is purely imaginary, born of a chauvinistic preference for all things “natural.” I had my baby without medication, in a freestanding birth center, because there was evidence that it was safer for us both, not because I’m an earthy crunchy iatrophobe or because I enjoy pain. As someone else said, there’s no evidence that vaccinations cause autism (I am always open to new evidence of course).

FTR, there are dangers with vaccinations due to allergic reactions, and this is fully acknowledged by the mainstream medical community. However, generally it is thought the very low risk of a serious reaction is worth the benefit. IIRC, it is the issue of reactions that caused them to stop using a combined vax and instead use four separate shots.

I do want to say that even some scientifically-backed directions are delivered in a really obnoxious way (e.g., the dire warning always to put baby to sleep on her back, poo-pooing the idea that some babies - such as mine - absolutely, positively cannot sleep on their backs), and that the warning labels on everything under the sun only serve to “cry wolf” and disguise what might really be dangerous.

37

:stuck_out_tongue:

Enjoy,
Steven

38

Next month in Parenting: How taking your child out in public will expose them to Anthrax, Ebola and worse, the common cold. And it is all your fault…can’t you just upgrade to premium cable and internet and become a hermit?
Phalphoto My little Weasels are nearly 6 and 4 and I stopped reading parenting magazines when I realized I was more depressed about the job I was doing as a parent , when deep down, I knew I was 98% fine compared to alot of the mom’s I know. ( The mom’s I know are dingbats. The Mom’s you know may vary, taxes and title are extra.)

As your child gets older and you venture out into the germ infested world, you will discover that there are Great Parents out there and Vastly Stupid Parents out there. The latter group outnumber the former by about 1000 to 1. (And their children will always be snot nosed.)

One addage that has girded my loins in this fun journey in life called Parenting is:
*You will learn more from a bad parent than you do from a good parent. *

39

As a mom who managed to raise two kids to adulthood without killing them, I feel qualified to tell you my parenting philosophy:

Kids are incredibly resilient. They’ll survive your worst parenting mistakes and probably not even notice them.

There is no right answer for every kid. I had my two eight years apart, and parenting advice – did a 180 during those eight years. First child: sleep on stomach, start feeding solids at 3 months, don’t “spoil” them by picking them up too much, etc., etc., etc. Second chid: sleep on back, no solids till 6 months, you can’t spoil a baby under six months by comforting them, and on and on. Basically the diametric opposite of the first time around. (Even my pregnancies, too – first one, don’t gain more than 25 pounds; second one, don’t gain less than 30. Sheesh.)

My kids grew up on formula (couldn’t really produce enough breast milk for either one), got an occasional spank on their bottom to get their attention when they were misbehaving (which stopped when they were out of diapers – and I suspect it hurt my hand far worse than it ever hurt their bottoms!), got all their vaccinations, ran around the house in walkers (and that hang-from-the-doorframe thingy, which my son loved and would bounce in for hours and hours on end), got left with teenage babysitters, and generally had a very non-PC upbringing. Oh, and they got read to endlessly, which I always recommend! We made up how to deal with things as we went along, and it worked out just fine.

Enjoy your little ones, because in ten years they’ll be either sullen or weepy teenagers, and you’ll long for the days when they would come running to you for a hug (although the good news is that once they turn into adults they might even let you hug them once in a while again!)!

40

I’d like to thank the parenting Dopers for this thread. I’m bookmarking it for the future! I’m pregnant and I’m already being told that if I put my baby in daycare that I’ll end up with an abused child! And its selfish of me not to be a stay-at-home mother (not knocking stay at home mothers, I just don’t think it suits my personality real well).

As a very nervous, first time mother-to-be who is trying to do everything right, this thread is wonderful.